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Tom,<br>
<br>
The NSRCA website says overseas dues are 40 USD when K-Factor is online
only. Probably should be even less to encourage overseas participation
and since overseas dues are gravy if K-Factor is online only.<br>
Are your dollar quotes USD or AUD?<br>
<br>
For everyone else <br>
Aussie dollar is currently about 0.63 dollars US. <br>
current Sydney petrol price for Shell regular= 1.159 AUD/liter =
1.159 * 4 / 1.05 * 0.63 = 2.78 USD/gallon<br>
<br>
What is your homebrew cost for 30%DZ fuel using coolpower oil? I
assume that is the regular 2-stroke oil we used to use rather than the
low-viscosity heli oil?<br>
<br>
The APA website says Jason is going to be at the KraftMasters this
year. First trip, Jason? You'll love it.<br>
<br>
When I was there, Peter Goldsmith and a team that will remain nameless
put cable ties on the driveshaft of the Canadian team van. They were
sweating bullets all the way back to the airport wondering if the van
was going to make it. Beware of practical jokers. Just enjoy massive
quantities of great beer and new friends.<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Koenig, Tom wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:A80938E906BC3340B0E7C4731F4B355E0244077E@semailbox02"
type="cite">
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<meta content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16788" name="GENERATOR">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="948065722-02022009"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Hi Guys, Hi John...</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="948065722-02022009"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="948065722-02022009"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Sorry-been lurking for a while
now. </font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="948065722-02022009"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="948065722-02022009"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Yes John is correct about our
system and I must say it kind of works ok. Nothing is ever perfect, but
it does work. Maybe you guys can learn something from us?</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="948065722-02022009"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="948065722-02022009"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">On another note, I've been a
NSRCA member now since '95 ( I think?) and Oh dear...I must
renew...Sorry Jim! I have very few reasons actually to be a NSRCA
member!!! What can the NSRCA do for me????? All I can get is that warm
fuzzy feeling knowing that I am part of the pattern community-is that
enough?</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="948065722-02022009"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">On top of that, now that the
dues have increased, the exchange rate is killing me!!! Let me ask
this-how many of you would pay $100 for the K-factor alone?</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="948065722-02022009"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="948065722-02022009"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Well, I will-and I get no
benefit at all from your organisation. Or do I?</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="948065722-02022009"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="948065722-02022009"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">In all truth, I actually think I
get great value! I have made some great friends over the years and how
does one put a monetary value on that? So ( Jim in particular) I will
renew asap...but I just might watch the exchange rates for a day or two
and try and pick a good time!</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="948065722-02022009"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Oh-and I will write and
contribute to the K-factor-I just need to line up a few more ducks
first.</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="948065722-02022009"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="948065722-02022009"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Fuels: Guys down here most of us
mix our own using the Coolpower oil. We source Nitro from VP ( or other
brands) and buy methanol anywhere we can, as long as its pure. To buy
pre mix is disgustingly expensive. I think a gallon of CP30 Heli will
be close to $85. Just plain madness in my opinion.</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="948065722-02022009"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Electrics will flourish
eventually-simply from an economic point of view. You guys in the US do
not always appreciate just how lucky you are!</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="948065722-02022009"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="948065722-02022009"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Gasoline ( we call it Petrol :-)
right now seems to be around $1.20- $1.30 per litre. Just a little
trivia for you all. </font></span></div>
<div><span class="948065722-02022009"></span> </div>
<div><span class="948065722-02022009"><font color="#0000ff"
face="Arial" size="2">Tom</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><br>
</div>
<div class="OutlookMessageHeader" dir="ltr" align="left" lang="en-us">
<hr tabindex="-1"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John
Gayer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 3 February 2009 2:07 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Mandatory Advancment<br>
</font><br>
</div>
Jim,<br>
<br>
When this subject came up lst year I suggested looking into the
advancement system the Australian Pattern Association uses to address
the issues you are bringing up. Their system is maintained by the APA
which maintains the status of each pilot attending any sanctioned
contests. In Australia you earn advancement to the next class by
beating a national standard (raw score) three times in a running
12month period. They have 4 classes (FAI,Expert, Advanced and
Sportsman). Since the APA is keeping track of all competitor's
advancement status, there is no honor system or bookkeeping issues for
the competitor. Since advancement is based on national scoring averages
of the FAI(Masters) community, the quality of the local competition in
the individual classes is removed(mostly) from the class advancement
criteria. Also, advancement of the top flyer in a class locally has no
impact on the advancement of the remaining competitors in that class.<br>
I flew under this system for a couple of years and it works quite well.
The biggest problem, as always, was fair and honest judging.
Typically, classes were judged by competitors in the next higher class
and there was a tendency to keep lower class competitors down on the
farm.<br>
More more information on the Australian advancement system, go to <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.australianpatternassociation.com.au">http://www.australianpatternassociation.com.au</a>
and drill down to rules and then MAAA Rules, scroll down to R/C
Aerobatics Grading System to get a complete description.<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
<br>
J N Hiller wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:HDEBJEADHEDJKKHHCEKPEEBBEFAA.jnhiller@earthlink.net"
type="cite">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="EmailStyle18"><font color="navy"
face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Yes John the NSRCA rules
change survey is for ALL who are interested in pattern (RC Aerobatics).
We can't emphasize this enough. For those who haven't been around
longer than dirt, the objective of the NSRCA is to gain some
consensuses within the pattern community regarding rule change
proposals. This process reduced the total number of proposals the AMA
change process needed to deal with, many of which were in conflict or
adversely affecting each other, greatly complicating the re-right
between the first and second AMA votes. At least I think that is how it
was. It's been a while! In any case individuals can still make change
proposals directly to AMA. To my knowledge AMA rules are not controlled
or dictated by any special interest group.<O:P></O:P></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="EmailStyle18"><font color="navy"
face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="EmailStyle18"><font color="navy"
face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">While out for a walk this
afternoon I had a couple more thoughts that I wish to share. First the
story of how I got to masters should have included how the remaining
advanced fliers would be affected by my absence. They will likely be
trading first place advancement points, which will accumulating faster,
epically if a single individual dominates. Without gaining significant
proficiency someone could find himself or herself forced into masters
much less prepared than I, which can be difficult at best. <O:P></O:P></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="EmailStyle18"><font color="navy"
face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="EmailStyle18"><font color="navy"
face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">When I spoke of using the
raw score as a personal benchmark I was actually using the judge
awarded average not the total K factor average. I found a couple
contest records both of which had 10-point takeoff and landing, which
contributed excessively to my performance average. The K-average was 1
to 2 % lower due to lower scores in higher K maneuvers. The value to be
used needs to be the K value average.<O:P></O:P></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="EmailStyle18"><font color="navy"
face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="EmailStyle18"><font color="navy"
face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">The other thing we should
consider is revising / simplifying the rule used to allow a return to a
lower class. Nobody enjoys being in last place all the time. A
performance average used for advancement effectively identifies the
upper performance limit within a class and an equally valid argument
could be made to use a minimum value, below maybe 50%, to allow return
to the next lower class. Of course this of course would not be
mandatory.<O:P></O:P></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="EmailStyle18"><font color="navy"
face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="EmailStyle18"><font color="navy"
face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">The thought also occurred
to me that some incomplete flights due to a double fowl line violation
should be included in the contest performance average as well. We don't
see this very often but it justifiably pulls down the competitor's
performance average.<O:P></O:P></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="EmailStyle18"><font color="navy"
face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="EmailStyle18"><font color="navy"
face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">If you have read this far
you are interested. Don't worry about offending me. Post your thoughts.<O:P></O:P></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="EmailStyle18"><font color="navy"
face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="EmailStyle18"><font color="navy"
face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Jim <span> </span><O:P></O:P></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="EmailStyle18"><font color="navy"
face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></span></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Tahoma;">-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]<b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>John Konneker<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sunday,
February 01, 2009 1:36 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Discussion List<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Mandatory Advancment</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0.5in; margin-right: 0in;"><font
color="black" face="Verdana" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;">Jim,<br>
Thank you for the thoughtful reply and your interest in the survey.<br>
As someone once told me, you can't have change without dissatisfaction.<br>
The subject of class advancement comes up often enough that one has<br>
to believe a lot of folks feel there is a better way.<br>
You bring up some excellent alternatives that need to be discussed.<br>
I know this discussion will lead to one or more survey proposals.<br>
I hope to have the survey ready to publish on the website, in the
K-Factor and <br>
Model Aviation and on the various forums by late summer. So we have
time<br>
to formulate your ideas.<br>
By the way, the survey will be open to ALL those interested in pattern.<br>
NOT just NSRCA members.<br>
Once again thanks Jim!<br>
JLK<br>
<br>
> From: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net">jnhiller@earthlink.net</a><br>
> To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 12:37:25 -0800<br>
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Mandatory Advancment<br>
> <br>
> John, I would be happy to get involved with this.<br>
> <br>
> I believe flight score averages derived from complete flights are
good<br>
> indicators of ability. Advancement could be based on multiple
contest<br>
> average (maybe 6???), enough to demonstrate consistency. 70%? 75%?
80%? 85%?<br>
> could be used as an advancement indicator rather it be mandatory
or simply a<br>
> recommendation. Not having raw scores information it would be
difficult for<br>
> me to suggest a hard number. Probably needs to be included in a
proposal!<br>
> Last season's contest raw scores would be a good indicator of an
appropriate<br>
> value.<br>
> <br>
> Here is my story:<br>
> I'm being pushed into masters where it's not likely that I will
ever be very<br>
> competitive, but that's OK. I reached my personal plateau of about
80%<br>
> flying advanced in 2007. Through much of 2008 during practice I
was just<br>
> standing in the flight box going through the motions, talking to
who ever<br>
> was standing there. I expect I will be hard pressed to break 70%
in masters.<br>
> My feeling is advancement percentage needs to increase with the
class<br>
> progression as the skill development or learning curve tends to
level out.<br>
> Not that the maneuvers are more difficult relative to our acquired
ability<br>
> but the sequences become much less forgiving of even simple errors.<br>
> <br>
> For something like this to work the AMA would need to maintain
accessible<br>
> records that are consistently updated by CD's. How many pattern
contests are<br>
> sanctioned? Does AMA still require CD to send contest results to
AMA? How<br>
> many CD's actually do? We started to touch on this issue in the
'national<br>
> database' discussion last year. How can it be done? Who is going
to do it?<br>
> Who needs to be involved to make this happen? Are they interested?
Are we<br>
> (pattern fliers) interested?<br>
> <br>
> Change is never without obstacles. Lets discuss this and other
ideas and add<br>
> it to the rules proposal survey. Lets try not to get overwhelmed
with<br>
> unreasonable high tech automated data management systems. We only
need one<br>
> additional number included with contest results and a new
advancement<br>
> 'points' card format.<br>
> <br>
> It's past time to try something different. John, how much time do
we have?<br>
> <br>
> Jim Hiller<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> [<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]On
Behalf Of John Konneker<br>
> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 11:17 AM<br>
> To: Discussion List; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:d_bodary@yahoo.com">d_bodary@yahoo.com</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Pattern Classes & Growth<br>
> <br>
> hmmm...<br>
> Jim H.,<br>
> That looks like a good rules proposal in the making!<br>
> I'd be happy to include it in the survey.<br>
> ;-)<br>
> JLK<br>
> <br>
<!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--><br>
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size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Verdana;"><O:P></O:P></span></font></p>
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_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
<hr size="4" width="90%">
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<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></pre>
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