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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>Its usually about $80-125 to bring my plane.
Then I stick minimal stuff I need in my suitcase and carry on my
Tx.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR>Regards,<BR>Jason<BR><A
href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com">www.shulmanaviation.com</A><BR><A
href="http://www.composite-arf.com">www.composite-arf.com</A><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000080 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jgghome@comcast.net href="mailto:jgghome@comcast.net">John Gayer</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 02, 2009 10:24
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Mandatory
Advancment</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Good luck. Wish I were going too.<BR>What will it cost to get
your planes there?<BR>John<BR><BR>J Shu wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:B37196E4878E48FF80E7EE9CD1017AEE@UncleJasPC
type="cite"><META content="MSHTML 6.00.6001.18183" name=GENERATOR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>Hi John,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>This will be my 2nd trip to the land
down under. I was there for the Desert Aircraft Challenge in
2007.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR>Regards,<BR>Jason<BR><A href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.shulmanaviation.com</A><BR><A
href="http://www.composite-arf.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.composite-arf.com</A><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,128) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jgghome@comcast.net href="mailto:jgghome@comcast.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">John Gayer</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">General pattern discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Monday, February 02, 2009 7:28 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Mandatory Advancment</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Tom,<BR><BR>The NSRCA website says overseas dues are 40 USD
when K-Factor is online only. Probably should be even less to encourage
overseas participation and since overseas dues are gravy if K-Factor is
online only.<BR>Are your dollar quotes USD or AUD?<BR><BR>For everyone
else <BR>Aussie dollar is currently about 0.63 dollars US. <BR>current
Sydney petrol price for Shell regular= 1.159 AUD/liter =
1.159 * 4 / 1.05 * 0.63 = 2.78 USD/gallon<BR><BR>What is your
homebrew cost for 30%DZ fuel using coolpower oil? I assume that is the
regular 2-stroke oil we used to use rather than the low-viscosity heli
oil?<BR><BR>The APA website says Jason is going to be at the KraftMasters
this year. First trip, Jason? You'll love it.<BR><BR>When I was there,
Peter Goldsmith and a team that will remain nameless put cable ties on the
driveshaft of the Canadian team van. They were sweating bullets all the
way back to the airport wondering if the van was going to make it. Beware
of practical jokers. Just enjoy massive quantities of great beer and new
friends.<BR><BR>John<BR> <BR>
<BR><BR><BR>Koenig, Tom wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:A80938E906BC3340B0E7C4731F4B355E0244077E@semailbox02
type="cite">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16788" name=GENERATOR>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Hi Guys, Hi John...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN
class=948065722-02022009></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Sorry-been lurking for a while now.
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN
class=948065722-02022009></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Yes John is correct about our system and I must say
it kind of works ok. Nothing is ever perfect, but it does work. Maybe
you guys can learn something from us?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN
class=948065722-02022009></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>On another note, I've been a NSRCA member now since
'95 ( I think?) and Oh dear...I must renew...Sorry Jim! I have very few
reasons actually to be a NSRCA member!!! What can the NSRCA do for
me????? All I can get is that warm fuzzy feeling knowing that
I am part of the pattern community-is that
enough?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>On top of that, now that the dues have increased,
the exchange rate is killing me!!! Let me ask this-how many of you would
pay $100 for the K-factor alone?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN
class=948065722-02022009></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Well, I will-and I get no benefit at all from your
organisation. Or do I?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN
class=948065722-02022009></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>In all truth, I actually think I get great value! I
have made some great friends over the years and how does one put a
monetary value on that? So ( Jim in particular) I will renew asap...but
I just might watch the exchange rates for a day or two and try and pick
a good time!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Oh-and I will write and contribute to the
K-factor-I just need to line up a few more ducks
first.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN
class=948065722-02022009></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Fuels: Guys down here most of us mix our own using
the Coolpower oil. We source Nitro from VP ( or other brands) and buy
methanol anywhere we can, as long as its pure. To buy pre mix is
disgustingly expensive. I think a gallon of CP30 Heli will be close to
$85. Just plain madness in my opinion.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Electrics will flourish eventually-simply from an
economic point of view. You guys in the US do not always appreciate just
how lucky you are!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN
class=948065722-02022009></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Gasoline ( we call it Petrol :-) right now seems to
be around $1.20- $1.30 per litre. Just a little trivia for you all.
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=948065722-02022009></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=948065722-02022009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Tom</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [<A
class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>John Gayer<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, 3 February 2009
2:07 AM<BR><B>To:</B> General pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Mandatory
Advancment<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>Jim,<BR><BR>When this subject came up lst
year I suggested looking into the advancement system the Australian
Pattern Association uses to address the issues you are bringing up.
Their system is maintained by the APA which maintains the status of each
pilot attending any sanctioned contests. In Australia you earn
advancement to the next class by beating a national standard (raw
score) three times in a running 12month period. They have 4 classes
(FAI,Expert, Advanced and Sportsman). Since the APA is keeping track of
all competitor's advancement status, there is no honor system or
bookkeeping issues for the competitor. Since advancement is based on
national scoring averages of the FAI(Masters) community, the quality of
the local competition in the individual classes is removed(mostly) from
the class advancement criteria. Also, advancement of the top flyer
in a class locally has no impact on the advancement of the remaining
competitors in that class.<BR>I flew under this system for a couple of
years and it works quite well. The biggest problem, as always, was
fair and honest judging. Typically, classes were judged by competitors
in the next higher class and there was a tendency to keep lower class
competitors down on the farm.<BR>More more information on the Australian
advancement system, go to <A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="http://www.australianpatternassociation.com.au"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.australianpatternassociation.com.au</A>
and drill down to rules and then MAAA Rules, scroll down to R/C
Aerobatics Grading System to get a complete
description.<BR><BR>John<BR> <BR><BR>J N Hiller wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:HDEBJEADHEDJKKHHCEKPEEBBEFAA.jnhiller@earthlink.net
type="cite">
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Yes John the NSRCA rules
change survey is for ALL who are interested in pattern (RC
Aerobatics). We can't emphasize this enough. For those who haven't
been around longer than dirt, the objective of the NSRCA is to gain
some consensuses within the pattern community regarding rule change
proposals. This process reduced the total number of proposals the AMA
change process needed to deal with, many of which were in conflict or
adversely affecting each other, greatly complicating the re-right
between the first and second AMA votes. At least I think that is how
it was. It's been a while! In any case individuals can still make
change proposals directly to AMA. To my knowledge AMA rules are not
controlled or dictated by any special interest
group.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">While out for a walk this
afternoon I had a couple more thoughts that I wish to share. First the
story of how I got to masters should have included how the remaining
advanced fliers would be affected by my absence. They will likely be
trading first place advancement points, which will accumulating
faster, epically if a single individual dominates. Without gaining
significant proficiency someone could find himself or herself forced
into masters much less prepared than I, which can be difficult at
best. <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">When I spoke of using the
raw score as a personal benchmark I was actually using the judge
awarded average not the total K factor average. I found a couple
contest records both of which had 10-point takeoff and landing, which
contributed excessively to my performance average. The K-average was 1
to 2 % lower due to lower scores in higher K maneuvers. The value to
be used needs to be the K value
average.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The other thing we should
consider is revising / simplifying the rule used to allow a return to
a lower class. Nobody enjoys being in last place all the time. A
performance average used for advancement effectively identifies the
upper performance limit within a class and an equally valid argument
could be made to use a minimum value, below maybe 50%, to allow return
to the next lower class. Of course this of course would not be
mandatory.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The thought also occurred
to me that some incomplete flights due to a double fowl line violation
should be included in the contest performance average as well. We
don't see this very often but it justifiably pulls down the
competitor's performance average.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial
color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">If
you have read this far you are interested. Don't worry about offending
me. Post your thoughts.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim
<SPAN> </SPAN><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma
color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> <A
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>John
Konneker<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B>
Sunday, February 01, 2009 1:36 PM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Discussion List<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Mandatory Advancment</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><FONT
face=Verdana color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Jim,<BR>Thank
you for the thoughtful reply and your interest in the survey.<BR>As
someone once told me, you can't have change without
dissatisfaction.<BR>The subject of class advancement comes up often
enough that one has<BR>to believe a lot of folks feel there is a
better way.<BR>You bring up some excellent alternatives that need to
be discussed.<BR>I know this discussion will lead to one or more
survey proposals.<BR>I hope to have the survey ready to publish on the
website, in the K-Factor and <BR>Model Aviation and on the
various forums by late summer. So we have time<BR>to
formulate your ideas.<BR>By the way, the survey will be open to ALL
those interested in pattern.<BR>NOT just NSRCA members.<BR>Once again
thanks Jim!<BR>JLK<BR><BR>> From: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">jnhiller@earthlink.net</A><BR>> To: <A
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 12:37:25 -0800<BR>> Subject:
[NSRCA-discussion] Mandatory Advancment<BR>> <BR>> John, I would
be happy to get involved with this.<BR>> <BR>> I believe flight
score averages derived from complete flights are good<BR>>
indicators of ability. Advancement could be based on multiple
contest<BR>> average (maybe 6???), enough to demonstrate
consistency. 70%? 75%? 80%? 85%?<BR>> could be used as an
advancement indicator rather it be mandatory or simply a<BR>>
recommendation. Not having raw scores information it would be
difficult for<BR>> me to suggest a hard number. Probably needs to
be included in a proposal!<BR>> Last season's contest raw scores
would be a good indicator of an appropriate<BR>> value.<BR>>
<BR>> Here is my story:<BR>> I'm being pushed into masters where
it's not likely that I will ever be very<BR>> competitive, but
that's OK. I reached my personal plateau of about 80%<BR>> flying
advanced in 2007. Through much of 2008 during practice I was
just<BR>> standing in the flight box going through the motions,
talking to who ever<BR>> was standing there. I expect I will be
hard pressed to break 70% in masters.<BR>> My feeling is
advancement percentage needs to increase with the class<BR>>
progression as the skill development or learning curve tends to level
out.<BR>> Not that the maneuvers are more difficult relative to our
acquired ability<BR>> but the sequences become much less forgiving
of even simple errors.<BR>> <BR>> For something like this to
work the AMA would need to maintain accessible<BR>> records that
are consistently updated by CD's. How many pattern contests
are<BR>> sanctioned? Does AMA still require CD to send contest
results to AMA? How<BR>> many CD's actually do? We started to touch
on this issue in the 'national<BR>> database' discussion last year.
How can it be done? Who is going to do it?<BR>> Who needs to be
involved to make this happen? Are they interested? Are we<BR>>
(pattern fliers) interested?<BR>> <BR>> Change is never without
obstacles. Lets discuss this and other ideas and add<BR>> it to the
rules proposal survey. Lets try not to get overwhelmed with<BR>>
unreasonable high tech automated data management systems. We only need
one<BR>> additional number included with contest results and a new
advancement<BR>> 'points' card format.<BR>> <BR>> It's past
time to try something different. John, how much time do we
have?<BR>> <BR>> Jim Hiller<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
-----Original Message-----<BR>> From: <A
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>
[<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]On
Behalf Of John Konneker<BR>> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 11:17
AM<BR>> To: Discussion List; <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:d_bodary@yahoo.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">d_bodary@yahoo.com</A><BR>> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Pattern Classes & Growth<BR>> <BR>>
hmmm...<BR>> Jim H.,<BR>> That looks like a good rules proposal
in the making!<BR>> I'd be happy to include it in the
survey.<BR>> ;-)<BR>> JLK<BR>> <BR><!--[if
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