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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>Hi John,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080>This will be my 2nd trip to the land down
under. I was there for the Desert Aircraft Challenge in 2007.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR>Regards,<BR>Jason<BR><A
href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com">www.shulmanaviation.com</A><BR><A
href="http://www.composite-arf.com">www.composite-arf.com</A><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000080 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jgghome@comcast.net href="mailto:jgghome@comcast.net">John Gayer</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, February 02, 2009 7:28
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Mandatory
Advancment</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Tom,<BR><BR>The NSRCA website says overseas dues are 40 USD
when K-Factor is online only. Probably should be even less to encourage
overseas participation and since overseas dues are gravy if K-Factor is online
only.<BR>Are your dollar quotes USD or AUD?<BR><BR>For everyone else
<BR>Aussie dollar is currently about 0.63 dollars US. <BR>current Sydney
petrol price for Shell regular= 1.159 AUD/liter = 1.159 * 4
/ 1.05 * 0.63 = 2.78 USD/gallon<BR><BR>What is your homebrew cost
for 30%DZ fuel using coolpower oil? I assume that is the regular 2-stroke oil
we used to use rather than the low-viscosity heli oil?<BR><BR>The APA website
says Jason is going to be at the KraftMasters this year. First trip, Jason?
You'll love it.<BR><BR>When I was there, Peter Goldsmith and a team that will
remain nameless put cable ties on the driveshaft of the Canadian team van.
They were sweating bullets all the way back to the airport wondering if the
van was going to make it. Beware of practical jokers. Just enjoy massive
quantities of great beer and new friends.<BR><BR>John<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BR><BR>Koenig, Tom wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:A80938E906BC3340B0E7C4731F4B355E0244077E@semailbox02
type="cite">
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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Hi Guys, Hi John...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Sorry-been lurking for a while now.
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Yes John is correct about our system and I must say it
kind of works ok. Nothing is ever perfect, but it does work. Maybe you guys
can learn something from us?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>On another note, I've been a NSRCA member now since '95
( I think?) and Oh dear...I must renew...Sorry Jim! I have very few reasons
actually to be a NSRCA member!!! What can the NSRCA do for me????? All
I can get is that warm fuzzy feeling knowing that I am part of the
pattern community-is that enough?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>On top of that, now that the dues have increased, the
exchange rate is killing me!!! Let me ask this-how many of you would pay
$100 for the K-factor alone?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Well, I will-and I get no benefit at all from your
organisation. Or do I?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>In all truth, I actually think I get great value! I
have made some great friends over the years and how does one put a monetary
value on that? So ( Jim in particular) I will renew asap...but I just might
watch the exchange rates for a day or two and try and pick a good
time!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Oh-and I will write and contribute to the K-factor-I
just need to line up a few more ducks first.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Fuels: Guys down here most of us mix our own using the
Coolpower oil. We source Nitro from VP ( or other brands) and buy methanol
anywhere we can, as long as its pure. To buy pre mix is disgustingly
expensive. I think a gallon of CP30 Heli will be close to $85. Just plain
madness in my opinion.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Electrics will flourish eventually-simply from an
economic point of view. You guys in the US do not always appreciate just how
lucky you are!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=948065722-02022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Gasoline ( we call it Petrol :-) right now seems to be
around $1.20- $1.30 per litre. Just a little trivia for you all.
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=948065722-02022009></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=948065722-02022009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Tom</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>John Gayer<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, 3 February 2009 2:07
AM<BR><B>To:</B> General pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Mandatory Advancment<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>Jim,<BR><BR>When
this subject came up lst year I suggested looking into the advancement
system the Australian Pattern Association uses to address the issues you are
bringing up. Their system is maintained by the APA which maintains the
status of each pilot attending any sanctioned contests. In Australia you
earn advancement to the next class by beating a national standard (raw
score) three times in a running 12month period. They have 4 classes
(FAI,Expert, Advanced and Sportsman). Since the APA is keeping track of all
competitor's advancement status, there is no honor system or bookkeeping
issues for the competitor. Since advancement is based on national scoring
averages of the FAI(Masters) community, the quality of the local competition
in the individual classes is removed(mostly) from the class advancement
criteria. Also, advancement of the top flyer in a class locally has no
impact on the advancement of the remaining competitors in that class.<BR>I
flew under this system for a couple of years and it works quite well. The
biggest problem, as always, was fair and honest judging. Typically,
classes were judged by competitors in the next higher class and there was a
tendency to keep lower class competitors down on the farm.<BR>More more
information on the Australian advancement system, go to <A
class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="http://www.australianpatternassociation.com.au"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.australianpatternassociation.com.au</A>
and drill down to rules and then MAAA Rules, scroll down to R/C Aerobatics
Grading System to get a complete description.<BR><BR>John<BR> <BR><BR>J
N Hiller wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:HDEBJEADHEDJKKHHCEKPEEBBEFAA.jnhiller@earthlink.net
type="cite">
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Yes John the
NSRCA rules change survey is for ALL who are interested in pattern (RC
Aerobatics). We can't emphasize this enough. For those who haven't been
around longer than dirt, the objective of the NSRCA is to gain some
consensuses within the pattern community regarding rule change proposals.
This process reduced the total number of proposals the AMA change process
needed to deal with, many of which were in conflict or adversely affecting
each other, greatly complicating the re-right between the first and second
AMA votes. At least I think that is how it was. It's been a while! In any
case individuals can still make change proposals directly to AMA. To my
knowledge AMA rules are not controlled or dictated by any special interest
group.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">While out for a
walk this afternoon I had a couple more thoughts that I wish to share.
First the story of how I got to masters should have included how the
remaining advanced fliers would be affected by my absence. They will
likely be trading first place advancement points, which will accumulating
faster, epically if a single individual dominates. Without gaining
significant proficiency someone could find himself or herself forced into
masters much less prepared than I, which can be difficult at best.
<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">When I spoke of
using the raw score as a personal benchmark I was actually using the judge
awarded average not the total K factor average. I found a couple contest
records both of which had 10-point takeoff and landing, which contributed
excessively to my performance average. The K-average was 1 to 2 % lower
due to lower scores in higher K maneuvers. The value to be used needs to
be the K value average.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The other thing
we should consider is revising / simplifying the rule used to allow a
return to a lower class. Nobody enjoys being in last place all the time. A
performance average used for advancement effectively identifies the upper
performance limit within a class and an equally valid argument could be
made to use a minimum value, below maybe 50%, to allow return to the next
lower class. Of course this of course would not be
mandatory.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The thought also
occurred to me that some incomplete flights due to a double fowl line
violation should be included in the contest performance average as well.
We don't see this very often but it justifiably pulls down the
competitor's performance average.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">If you have read
this far you are interested. Don't worry about offending me. Post your
thoughts.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim
<SPAN> </SPAN><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle18><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma
color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> <A
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [<A
class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>John
Konneker<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Sunday,
February 01, 2009 1:36 PM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Discussion List<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Mandatory Advancment</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><!--[if
!supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]--><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><FONT
face=Verdana color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Jim,<BR>Thank
you for the thoughtful reply and your interest in the survey.<BR>As
someone once told me, you can't have change without
dissatisfaction.<BR>The subject of class advancement comes up often enough
that one has<BR>to believe a lot of folks feel there is a better
way.<BR>You bring up some excellent alternatives that need to be
discussed.<BR>I know this discussion will lead to one or more survey
proposals.<BR>I hope to have the survey ready to publish on the website,
in the K-Factor and <BR>Model Aviation and on the various forums by
late summer. So we have time<BR>to formulate your ideas.<BR>By the
way, the survey will be open to ALL those interested in pattern.<BR>NOT
just NSRCA members.<BR>Once again thanks Jim!<BR>JLK<BR><BR>> From: <A
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">jnhiller@earthlink.net</A><BR>> To: <A
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>> Date:
Sun, 1 Feb 2009 12:37:25 -0800<BR>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion]
Mandatory Advancment<BR>> <BR>> John, I would be happy to get
involved with this.<BR>> <BR>> I believe flight score averages
derived from complete flights are good<BR>> indicators of ability.
Advancement could be based on multiple contest<BR>> average (maybe
6???), enough to demonstrate consistency. 70%? 75%? 80%? 85%?<BR>>
could be used as an advancement indicator rather it be mandatory or simply
a<BR>> recommendation. Not having raw scores information it would be
difficult for<BR>> me to suggest a hard number. Probably needs to be
included in a proposal!<BR>> Last season's contest raw scores would be
a good indicator of an appropriate<BR>> value.<BR>> <BR>> Here is
my story:<BR>> I'm being pushed into masters where it's not likely that
I will ever be very<BR>> competitive, but that's OK. I reached my
personal plateau of about 80%<BR>> flying advanced in 2007. Through
much of 2008 during practice I was just<BR>> standing in the flight box
going through the motions, talking to who ever<BR>> was standing there.
I expect I will be hard pressed to break 70% in masters.<BR>> My
feeling is advancement percentage needs to increase with the class<BR>>
progression as the skill development or learning curve tends to level
out.<BR>> Not that the maneuvers are more difficult relative to our
acquired ability<BR>> but the sequences become much less forgiving of
even simple errors.<BR>> <BR>> For something like this to work the
AMA would need to maintain accessible<BR>> records that are
consistently updated by CD's. How many pattern contests are<BR>>
sanctioned? Does AMA still require CD to send contest results to AMA?
How<BR>> many CD's actually do? We started to touch on this issue in
the 'national<BR>> database' discussion last year. How can it be done?
Who is going to do it?<BR>> Who needs to be involved to make this
happen? Are they interested? Are we<BR>> (pattern fliers)
interested?<BR>> <BR>> Change is never without obstacles. Lets
discuss this and other ideas and add<BR>> it to the rules proposal
survey. Lets try not to get overwhelmed with<BR>> unreasonable high
tech automated data management systems. We only need one<BR>>
additional number included with contest results and a new
advancement<BR>> 'points' card format.<BR>> <BR>> It's past time
to try something different. John, how much time do we have?<BR>>
<BR>> Jim Hiller<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -----Original
Message-----<BR>> From: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>
[<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]On
Behalf Of John Konneker<BR>> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 11:17
AM<BR>> To: Discussion List; <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:d_bodary@yahoo.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">d_bodary@yahoo.com</A><BR>> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Pattern Classes & Growth<BR>> <BR>>
hmmm...<BR>> Jim H.,<BR>> That looks like a good rules proposal in
the making!<BR>> I'd be happy to include it in the survey.<BR>>
;-)<BR>> JLK<BR>> <BR><!--[if
!supportLineBreakNewLine]--><BR><!--[endif]--></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Verdana color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><PRE wrap=""><HR width="90%" SIZE=4>
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