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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Yes John
the NSRCA rules change survey is for ALL who are interested in pattern (RC
Aerobatics). We can't emphasize this enough. For those who haven't been around
longer than dirt, the objective of the NSRCA is to gain some consensuses within
the pattern community regarding rule change proposals. This process reduced the
total number of proposals the AMA change process needed to deal with, many of
which were in conflict or adversely affecting each other, greatly complicating
the re-right between the first and second AMA votes. At least I think that is
how it was. It's been a while! In any case individuals can still make change
proposals directly to AMA. To my knowledge AMA rules are not controlled or
dictated by any special interest group.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>While out
for a walk this afternoon I had a couple more thoughts that I wish to share. First
the story of how I got to masters should have included how the remaining
advanced fliers would be affected by my absence. They will likely be trading first
place advancement points, which will accumulating faster, epically if a single
individual dominates. Without gaining significant proficiency someone could
find himself or herself forced into masters much less prepared than I, which
can be difficult at best. <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>When I
spoke of using the raw score as a personal benchmark I was actually using the
judge awarded average not the total K factor average. I found a couple contest
records both of which had 10-point takeoff and landing, which contributed
excessively to my performance average. The K-average was 1 to 2 % lower due to
lower scores in higher K maneuvers. The value to be used needs to be the K value
average.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The other
thing we should consider is revising / simplifying the rule used to allow a
return to a lower class. Nobody enjoys being in last place all the time. A
performance average used for advancement effectively identifies the upper
performance limit within a class and an equally valid argument could be made to
use a minimum value, below maybe 50%, to allow return to the next lower class. Of
course this of course would not be mandatory.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The
thought also occurred to me that some incomplete flights due to a double fowl
line violation should be included in the contest performance average as well.
We don't see this very often but it justifiably pulls down the competitor's performance
average.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>If you
have read this far you are interested. Don't worry about offending me. Post your
thoughts.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Jim <span
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>John Konneker<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Sunday, February 01, 2009
1:36 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Discussion List<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Mandatory Advancment</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'>Jim,<br>
Thank you for the thoughtful reply and your interest in the survey.<br>
As someone once told me, you can't have change without dissatisfaction.<br>
The subject of class advancement comes up often enough that one has<br>
to believe a lot of folks feel there is a better way.<br>
You bring up some excellent alternatives that need to be discussed.<br>
I know this discussion will lead to one or more survey proposals.<br>
I hope to have the survey ready to publish on the website, in the K-Factor and <br>
Model Aviation and on the various forums by late summer. So we have
time<br>
to formulate your ideas.<br>
By the way, the survey will be open to ALL those interested in pattern.<br>
NOT just NSRCA members.<br>
Once again thanks Jim!<br>
JLK<br>
<br>
> From: jnhiller@earthlink.net<br>
> To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
> Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 12:37:25 -0800<br>
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Mandatory Advancment<br>
> <br>
> John, I would be happy to get involved with this.<br>
> <br>
> I believe flight score averages derived from complete flights are good<br>
> indicators of ability. Advancement could be based on multiple contest<br>
> average (maybe 6???), enough to demonstrate consistency. 70%? 75%? 80%?
85%?<br>
> could be used as an advancement indicator rather it be mandatory or simply
a<br>
> recommendation. Not having raw scores information it would be difficult
for<br>
> me to suggest a hard number. Probably needs to be included in a proposal!<br>
> Last season's contest raw scores would be a good indicator of an appropriate<br>
> value.<br>
> <br>
> Here is my story:<br>
> I'm being pushed into masters where it's not likely that I will ever be
very<br>
> competitive, but that's OK. I reached my personal plateau of about 80%<br>
> flying advanced in 2007. Through much of 2008 during practice I was just<br>
> standing in the flight box going through the motions, talking to who ever<br>
> was standing there. I expect I will be hard pressed to break 70% in
masters.<br>
> My feeling is advancement percentage needs to increase with the class<br>
> progression as the skill development or learning curve tends to level out.<br>
> Not that the maneuvers are more difficult relative to our acquired ability<br>
> but the sequences become much less forgiving of even simple errors.<br>
> <br>
> For something like this to work the AMA would need to maintain accessible<br>
> records that are consistently updated by CD's. How many pattern contests
are<br>
> sanctioned? Does AMA still require CD to send contest results to AMA? How<br>
> many CD's actually do? We started to touch on this issue in the 'national<br>
> database' discussion last year. How can it be done? Who is going to do it?<br>
> Who needs to be involved to make this happen? Are they interested? Are we<br>
> (pattern fliers) interested?<br>
> <br>
> Change is never without obstacles. Lets discuss this and other ideas and
add<br>
> it to the rules proposal survey. Lets try not to get overwhelmed with<br>
> unreasonable high tech automated data management systems. We only need one<br>
> additional number included with contest results and a new advancement<br>
> 'points' card format.<br>
> <br>
> It's past time to try something different. John, how much time do we have?<br>
> <br>
> Jim Hiller<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org<br>
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of John Konneker<br>
> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 11:17 AM<br>
> To: Discussion List; d_bodary@yahoo.com<br>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Pattern Classes & Growth<br>
> <br>
> hmmm...<br>
> Jim H.,<br>
> That looks like a good rules proposal in the making!<br>
> I'd be happy to include it in the survey.<br>
> ;-)<br>
> JLK<br>
> <br style='mso-special-character:line-break'>
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