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<DIV><SPAN class=031434400-06012009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
can't find any documentation that requires that an exit or entry line be
included as part of the maneuver. We are not talking about the maneuver
separation line here although it cirtinaly could be the same stretch of S&L
flight. If the maneuver actually included an exit line I would think the
maneuver separation line would need to be in addition to it. I believe the judge
training manual is pretty clear on how we should be flying and
judging.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=031434400-06012009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
think we have just about beat this issue into submission.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=031434400-06012009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I'm
finished. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=031434400-06012009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Next
subject!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=031434400-06012009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Jim</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Scott
Smith<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 05, 2009 3:38 PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'General
pattern discussion'<BR><B>Subject:</B> [NSRCA-discussion] Aresti takes
precedence<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">How can that
be? The word Aresti doesn’t even appear in the regulations (which by the
way has been updated for 2009 and is available at
http://www.modelaircraft.org/UserFiles/RC%20Aerobatics.pdf)
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hey, I just found
ARESTI on pg RCA-13…what’s wrong with the PDF search?? Anyway, if Aresti
takes precedent, I need some more elevator throw for those bottom radii on the
humpty!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><IMG id=_x0000_i1028
height=181 src="cid:031434400@06012009-08ee"
width=148><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>george w. kennie<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, January 05, 2009 5:41
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
cahochhalter@yahoo.com; <st1:PersonName w:st="on">General pattern
discussion</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Happy New
Year</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Chuck,
Jim,</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The maneuver under consideration
is the 1/2 Reverse Cuban, not the Cuban and the question that Jim seems to be
wrestling with is the end point of the maneuver. Aresti drawings of all
maneuvers are drawn with a circle on the line of flight indicating the
starting point of the maneuver and a vertical bar indicating the ending point
of the maneuver. If you look at RCA-09 in the rulebook you will find an Aresti
outline of the Sportsman sequence. You will also note that the 1/2 Reverse
Cuban displays the end point of the maneuver as being in line with the entry
point ( minus the straight entry line ). The originator of the drawing appears
to have gotten the Aresti's correct, but has been remiss in displaying the
exit lines on most maneuvers. If the maneuver was complete when the 5/8
looping segment was complete then the vertical Aresti END BAR would have
occurred at that point. All the Aresti figures I can find display all
turn-around maneuvers as having their end-points coincidental with their
starting points.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">As pointed out by Vicente in
RCA-19 there is a requirement for all maneuvers to start and end with a
straight horizontal line. In the absence of a line, in either case, there is a
2 point deduction. While it's true that the length is not
delineated, that wasn't always the case. Just another example of the
dillution of long established protocols by well meaning individuals intent on
making things better.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The judging committee has informed
me on more than one occasion that "ARESTI TAKES PRECEDENCE !!!" I would
counter, "the implementation of the axiom should be paramount
!"</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">G.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- Original Message -----
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV style="font-color: black">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><FONT face=Arial
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=cahochhalter@yahoo.com href="mailto:cahochhalter@yahoo.com">Charles
Hochhalter</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Monday,
January 05, 2009 1:01 AM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Happy New Year<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<TABLE class=MsoNormalTable cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0>
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<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">George,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I am going to have to agree with Jim on this
one, the maneuver is complete in regards to the cuban eight when the
plane returns to level flight. There is no line segment required
to complete the maneuver.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Chuck<BR><BR>--- On <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Mon, 1/5/09, J N Hiller <I><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic"><<A
href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net">jnhiller@earthlink.net</A>></SPAN></I></SPAN></B>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">From: J
N Hiller <<A
href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net">jnhiller@earthlink.net</A>><BR>Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Happy New Year<BR>To: "<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Date: Monday, January 5,
2009, 2:28 AM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV id=yiv1643954938>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
class=emailstyle23><FONT face=Arial color=#003300 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #003300; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">George
I'm back.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
class=emailstyle23><FONT face=Arial color=#003300 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #003300; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I was
hoping someone would advance the discussion regarding the finish
point of the reverse cuban eight being equal to it's start. Since no
one has I can't sit back and watch. Sorry but I disagree.
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
class=emailstyle23><FONT face=Arial color=#003300 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #003300; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Somebody
please correct me if I am wrong but as I remember from previous
judging seminars 'all maneuvers start from and finish with straight
and level flight' (upright or inverted). This leads me to believe
maneuvers start and stop when they deviate from S&L flight in
either roll or pitch and do not include either a lead in or exit
line segment.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
class=emailstyle23><FONT face=Arial color=#003300 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #003300; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">As you
know, Aresti figures are a universal / international language used
by IAC competitors. They are often displayed on their instrument
panels as a sequence quick reference guide. If we were to try to fly
each figure as drawn most turnarounds would need an altitude change
with some having strange angles. If all turnaround maneuvers
finished or started with their widest part, either entering or
exiting something like the reverse humpty which is 3 radiuses wide,
if flown on line, would need to include an exit line equal to 2
radiuses in length. I don't think so!</SPAN></FONT></SPAN>
<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
class=emailstyle23><FONT face=Arial color=#003300 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #003300; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The
attached word document contains figure descriptions from the IAC and
AMA web sites. They all describe the maneuver as starting or ending
with the looping segments with no mention of a lead-in or exit line.
It appears to me that the Aresti drawings are for reference only and
not to be used as a required flight path.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN>
<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
class=emailstyle23><FONT face=Arial color=#003300 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #003300; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I expect
this will come up in our judging seminar and I will fly and judge it
however <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Gary</st1:place></st1:City> says.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN>
<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
class=emailstyle23><FONT face=Arial color=#003300 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #003300; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim</SPAN></FONT></SPAN>
<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>J N
Hiller<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B>
Friday, January 02, 2009 10:30 AM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Happy New Year</SPAN></FONT> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
class=emailstyle21><FONT face=Arial color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993366; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">George
don't worry about me being ostracized I spent the bulk of my working
life pointing out details to coworkers, managers and consultants who
were generally unaware or disinterested. The consultants were fun,
it didn't take long to overload them and I outlasted most of the
managers. </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
class=emailstyle21><FONT face=Arial color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993366; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The
devil is always in a seemingly unending string of details. During my
years in management, writing 'How It <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">Work</st1:PersonName>s' documents filled with detail, I
found most folks were overwhelmed if exposed to all of it but it was
necessary reference material. </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
class=emailstyle21><FONT face=Arial color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993366; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Most
management meetings were filled with discussions exposing details
and the relative importance to the individuals concerned. It was
always enlightening. </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
class=emailstyle21><FONT face=Arial color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993366; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I guess
what I am trying to say is that highly detailed rule books like
highly detailed SOP manuals can become so overwhelming that they
become dust collectors. Kind of like the snap roll discussions where
too much equals nothing. Yes it's time to dump a lot of old e-mail.
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
class=emailstyle21><FONT face=Arial color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993366; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I'm one
of those strange individuals that fly pattern or IMAC for the
challenge and self-satisfaction and yes I judge my flying but I
don't question the scores awarded. We all see it a little
differently and there is always room for improvement but before the
NSRCA judging clarification guidelines and training, score sheets
could be 'interesting'. </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
class=emailstyle21><FONT face=Arial color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993366; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Anyway
thanks for enlightening me regarding the finishing point of the half
reverse cuban. I thought the maneuver separation line started upon
completion of the partial loop. Something else to watch for when
judging! </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
class=emailstyle21><FONT face=Arial color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993366; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Yes I
read all your postings and responses.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN>
<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
class=emailstyle21><FONT face=Arial color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993366; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim</SPAN></FONT></SPAN>
<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>george w.
kennie<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B>
Friday, January 02, 2009 6:50 AM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Happy New Year</SPAN></FONT> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim,</SPAN></FONT>
<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I'M A
NOBODY !!!!!!!!!!!! If you fall into the trap of taking
anything I say as Gospel you may be opening yourself up to
opposition and ostricism, so be forewarned.</SPAN></FONT>
<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My reason
for dealing with the clover was to establish some sense of what size
to make the loops. As you can see, when you clearly understand the
geometry, the required size becomes a dictate.
It's all in the details, Jim. Some people feel that I'm over detail
oriented, but unless you understand the details you can't
effectively perform OR judge the maneuver accurately. I
inadvertently abdicated my own mantra by loosely referring to the
looping portion of the clover as loops, when they're 3/4 loops. My
bad. You sound like you have a good handle on the clover.
I would add that you further concentrate on making sure the vertical
up and down lines are dead-on superimpositionally.</SPAN></FONT>
<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I also
agree with the floor to ceiling approach as I'm constantly telling
new guys that I work with to "make it bigger." Adding to that
the requirement to maintain maneuver to maneuver relative size
relationships, which addresses your question regarding the
Sportsman's Cobra. Ya can't have a mini-Reverse and a gigandi
Cobra. I'm glad you referenced that problem as it's a prime example
of what I was talking about in my discussion on "maneuver
end-points." I think I remember a lot of agreement in previous
discussions about the problem resulting in the conclusion that
maneuver # 3 and # 8 needed to be switched to alleviate the cramping
issue. I even thought this to be a viable solution at the time, that
is, 'til you brought it up and then I realized that I was
missing my own point. There is no size difference between the
1/2 Cuban and the 1/2 Reverse Cuban. That Reverse doesn't end until
you get all the way back to the beginning of the ENTRY line.
CHECK THE ARESTI ! So, you see there is no advantage
either way. What was probably needed was something like a
Humpty.</SPAN></FONT> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Regarding
the roll rate issue. I'm glad that Matt referenced that as I was
going to offer the three rolls in 5 seconds, but refrained as
it's too vague and would be quickly challenged. The 3 second
rule on the Slow is a minimum value with no maximum indicated. It
should be pretty obvious that there should be a visually discernable
differential between the two and becomes somewhat subjective. This
1.67 second interval for the standard roll being established as a
maximum value would quickly come under attack I'm sure. I don't know
how the legislative process could be achieved on that
one.</SPAN></FONT> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My
feeling, and it's only a feeling on the Cuban with 2 of 4
is similar to my stand on the triangle with the roll across the top
i.e. presentable centering. I like to see a clearly
defined line before and after the rolling element and would prefer
to see the roll consume less of the overall downline area than the
two straight-line segments, but that's just ME. I confess
that I would not like to see a standard rate that's so fast that I
can't keep up to the required corrections.</SPAN></FONT>
<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I'd also
like to thank you for your feedback. I wasn't sure anyone
would read the whole diatribe.</SPAN></FONT> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
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face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Georgie
</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
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<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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