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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>How can that be? The word Aresti doesn’t
even appear in the regulations (which by the way has been updated for 2009 and is
available at http://www.modelaircraft.org/UserFiles/RC%20Aerobatics.pdf) <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hey, I just found ARESTI on pg RCA-13…what’s
wrong with the PDF search?? Anyway, if Aresti takes precedent, I need
some more elevator throw for those bottom radii on the humpty!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><img width=148 height=181 id="_x0000_i1028"
src="cid:image001.jpg@01C96F64.3F48FB10"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>george w. kennie<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, January 05, 2009
5:41 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> cahochhalter@yahoo.com; <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Happy New Year</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Chuck, Jim,</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>The maneuver under consideration is the 1/2 Reverse Cuban,
not the Cuban and the question that Jim seems to be wrestling with is the end
point of the maneuver. Aresti drawings of all maneuvers are drawn with a circle
on the line of flight indicating the starting point of the maneuver and a
vertical bar indicating the ending point of the maneuver. If you look at RCA-09
in the rulebook you will find an Aresti outline of the Sportsman sequence. You
will also note that the 1/2 Reverse Cuban displays the end point of the
maneuver as being in line with the entry point ( minus the straight entry line
). The originator of the drawing appears to have gotten the Aresti's correct,
but has been remiss in displaying the exit lines on most maneuvers. If the
maneuver was complete when the 5/8 looping segment was complete then the
vertical Aresti END BAR would have occurred at that point. All the Aresti
figures I can find display all turn-around maneuvers as having their end-points
coincidental with their starting points.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>As pointed out by Vicente in RCA-19 there is a requirement
for all maneuvers to start and end with a straight horizontal line. In the
absence of a line, in either case, there is a 2 point deduction. While it's
true that the length is not delineated, that wasn't always the case. Just
another example of the dillution of long established protocols by well meaning
individuals intent on making things better.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>The judging committee has informed me on more than one
occasion that "ARESTI TAKES PRECEDENCE !!!" I would counter,
"the implementation of the axiom should be paramount !"</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>G.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:cahochhalter@yahoo.com" title="cahochhalter@yahoo.com">Charles
Hochhalter</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Monday, January
05, 2009 1:01 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Happy New Year<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0>
<tr>
<td valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>George,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I am going to have to agree with Jim on this one,
the maneuver is complete in regards to the cuban eight when the plane returns
to level flight. There is no line segment required to complete the
maneuver.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Chuck<br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Mon, 1/5/09, J N Hiller <i><span
style='font-style:italic'><<a href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net">jnhiller@earthlink.net</a>></span></i></span></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>From: J N Hiller <<a
href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net">jnhiller@earthlink.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Happy New Year<br>
To: "<st1:PersonName w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 2:28 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div id=yiv1643954938>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span class=emailstyle23><font size=2 color="#003300"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'>George
I'm back.</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span class=emailstyle23><font size=2 color="#003300"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'>I
was hoping someone would advance the discussion regarding the finish point of
the reverse cuban eight being equal to it's start. Since no one has I can't
sit back and watch. Sorry but I disagree. </span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span class=emailstyle23><font size=2 color="#003300"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'>Somebody
please correct me if I am wrong but as I remember from previous judging
seminars 'all maneuvers start from and finish with straight and level flight'
(upright or inverted). This leads me to believe maneuvers start and stop when
they deviate from S&L flight in either roll or pitch and do not include
either a lead in or exit line segment.</span></font></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span class=emailstyle23><font size=2 color="#003300"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'>As
you know, Aresti figures are a universal / international language used by IAC
competitors. They are often displayed on their instrument panels as a
sequence quick reference guide. If we were to try to fly each figure as drawn
most turnarounds would need an altitude change with some having strange
angles. If all turnaround maneuvers finished or started with their widest
part, either entering or exiting something like the reverse humpty which is 3
radiuses wide, if flown on line, would need to include an exit line equal to
2 radiuses in length. I don't think so!</span></font></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span class=emailstyle23><font size=2 color="#003300"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'>The
attached word document contains figure descriptions from the IAC and AMA web
sites. They all describe the maneuver as starting or ending with the looping
segments with no mention of a lead-in or exit line. It appears to me that the
Aresti drawings are for reference only and not to be used as a required
flight path.</span></font></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span class=emailstyle23><font size=2 color="#003300"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'>I
expect this will come up in our judging seminar and I will fly and judge it
however <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Gary</st1:place></st1:City>
says.</span></font></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span class=emailstyle23><font size=2 color="#003300"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'>Jim</span></font></span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>J N Hiller<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, January 02, 2009
10:30 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">General
pattern discussion</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Happy New Year</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span class=emailstyle21><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>George
don't worry about me being ostracized I spent the bulk of my working life
pointing out details to coworkers, managers and consultants who were
generally unaware or disinterested. The consultants were fun, it didn't take
long to overload them and I outlasted most of the managers. </span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span class=emailstyle21><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>The
devil is always in a seemingly unending string of details. During my years in
management, writing 'How It <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Work</st1:PersonName>s'
documents filled with detail, I found most folks were overwhelmed if exposed
to all of it but it was necessary reference material. </span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span class=emailstyle21><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>Most
management meetings were filled with discussions exposing details and the
relative importance to the individuals concerned. It was always enlightening.
</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span class=emailstyle21><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>I
guess what I am trying to say is that highly detailed rule books like highly
detailed SOP manuals can become so overwhelming that they become dust
collectors. Kind of like the snap roll discussions where too much equals
nothing. Yes it's time to dump a lot of old e-mail. </span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span class=emailstyle21><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>I'm
one of those strange individuals that fly pattern or IMAC for the challenge
and self-satisfaction and yes I judge my flying but I don't question the
scores awarded. We all see it a little differently and there is always room
for improvement but before the NSRCA judging clarification guidelines and
training, score sheets could be 'interesting'. </span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span class=emailstyle21><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>Anyway
thanks for enlightening me regarding the finishing point of the half reverse
cuban. I thought the maneuver separation line started upon completion of the
partial loop. Something else to watch for when judging! </span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span class=emailstyle21><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>Yes
I read all your postings and responses.</span></font></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><span class=emailstyle21><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>Jim</span></font></span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.0in'><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>george w. kennie<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, January 02, 2009
6:50 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">General
pattern discussion</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Happy New Year</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.0in'><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Jim,</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.0in'><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I'M A NOBODY
!!!!!!!!!!!! If you fall into the trap of taking anything I say
as Gospel you may be opening yourself up to opposition and ostricism, so be
forewarned.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.0in'><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>My reason for dealing
with the clover was to establish some sense of what size to make the loops.
As you can see, when you clearly understand the geometry, the required size
becomes a dictate. It's all in the details, Jim. Some
people feel that I'm over detail oriented, but unless you understand the
details you can't effectively perform OR judge the maneuver accurately.
I inadvertently abdicated my own mantra by loosely referring to the looping
portion of the clover as loops, when they're 3/4 loops. My bad. You
sound like you have a good handle on the clover. I would add that you
further concentrate on making sure the vertical up and down lines are dead-on
superimpositionally.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.0in'><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I also agree with the
floor to ceiling approach as I'm constantly telling new guys that I work with
to "make it bigger." Adding to that the requirement to
maintain maneuver to maneuver relative size relationships, which addresses
your question regarding the Sportsman's Cobra. Ya can't have a
mini-Reverse and a gigandi Cobra. I'm glad you referenced that problem as
it's a prime example of what I was talking about in my discussion on
"maneuver end-points." I think I remember a lot of agreement
in previous discussions about the problem resulting in the conclusion that
maneuver # 3 and # 8 needed to be switched to alleviate the cramping issue. I
even thought this to be a viable solution at the time, that is, 'til you
brought it up and then I realized that I was missing my own
point. There is no size difference between the 1/2 Cuban and the 1/2
Reverse Cuban. That Reverse doesn't end until you get all the way back to the
beginning of the ENTRY line. CHECK THE ARESTI ! So, you see
there is no advantage either way. What was probably needed was something like
a Humpty.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.0in'><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Regarding the roll
rate issue. I'm glad that Matt referenced that as I was going to offer the
three rolls in 5 seconds, but refrained as it's too vague and would be
quickly challenged. The 3 second rule on the Slow is a minimum value
with no maximum indicated. It should be pretty obvious that there should be a
visually discernable differential between the two and becomes somewhat
subjective. This 1.67 second interval for the standard roll being established
as a maximum value would quickly come under attack I'm sure. I don't know how
the legislative process could be achieved on that one.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.0in'><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>My feeling, and
it's only a feeling on the Cuban with 2 of 4 is similar to my stand
on the triangle with the roll across the top i.e. presentable
centering. I like to see a clearly defined line before and after
the rolling element and would prefer to see the roll consume less of the
overall downline area than the two straight-line segments, but that's
just ME. I confess that I would not like to see a standard rate
that's so fast that I can't keep up to the required corrections.</span></font>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.0in'><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I'd also like to thank
you for your feedback. I wasn't sure anyone would read the whole
diatribe.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.0in'><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Georgie
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<pre><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre></blockquote>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
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NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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