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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Silly me – when I opened the thread entitled “Happy
New Year,” I was expecting to see some greetings. Happy New Years
guys.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Regarding this topic, I think it is a wonderful teaching and
philosophical point for precision aerobatics , “… that all
maneuvers begin and end with a straight line.” In IMAC, the
language is something like, “… the maneuver begins when the pilot
departs horizontal wings-level flight.” (Jim H., you mention
something like this in your post a few below.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I happen to like the pattern statement – maybe because it
is so simple. With either statement though, the primary discussion from
the SE IMAC judging seminar became, “… when do I stop deducting
points from the maneuver just completed, versus the upcoming maneuver.”
In either case the judge has to make a determination on how to apply downgrades
for what happens on exit, versus entry to the upcoming maneuver.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>In my mind, the “… all maneuvers begin and end with
a straight line” statement doesn’t affect that overall geometry of
the maneuver. It is there to say that if you wings aren’t level
before you begin a maneuver, then points are being deducted. It is there
to “define” briefly when one maneuver ends and another begins.
It is there to reinforce that there is no “sport-flying” in the
box.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks,</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Jim</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rex<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 05, 2009 3:27 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> NSRCA-discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Happy New Year<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>The only straight line requirement for lead
in/out of a maneuver, has to do with either <br>
entering or exiting the box. Sportsman pilots have this
requirement four times per <br>
sequence... entering the box for the first maneuver, exiting the box
for two unscored <br>
turnarounds during the sequence, and calling box exit before
landing. <br>
When calling box entrance, a 15m line must proceed the first maneuver...
thus exiting the box<br>
also requires a 15m line from ending the manuever to actually calling the box
exit.<br>
As a general rule, a visible straight line must separate each
maneuver.... there is no length <br>
requirement.... just "visible".<br>
<br>
I think that's correct... lol<br>
<br>
Rex<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center id=stopSpelling>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><br>
<br>
From: jnhiller@earthlink.net<br>
To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 18:28:50 -0800<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Happy New Year<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=ecemailstyle23><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#003300'>George
I'm back.</span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=ecemailstyle23><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#003300'>I was
hoping someone would advance the discussion regarding the finish point of the
reverse cuban eight being equal to it's start. Since no one has I can't sit
back and watch. Sorry but I disagree. </span></span><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=ecemailstyle23><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#003300'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=ecemailstyle23><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#003300'>Somebody
please correct me if I am wrong but as I remember from previous judging
seminars 'all maneuvers start from and finish with straight and level flight'
(upright or inverted). This leads me to believe maneuvers start and stop when
they deviate from S&L flight in either roll or pitch and do not include
either a lead in or exit line segment.</span></span><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=ecemailstyle23><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#003300'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=ecemailstyle23><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#003300'>As you
know, Aresti figures are a universal / international language used by IAC
competitors. They are often displayed on their instrument panels as a sequence
quick reference guide. If we were to try to fly each figure as drawn most
turnarounds would need an altitude change with some having strange angles. If
all turnaround maneuvers finished or started with their widest part, either
entering or exiting something like the reverse humpty which is 3 radiuses wide,
if flown on line, would need to include an exit line equal to 2 radiuses in
length. I don't think so!</span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=ecemailstyle23><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#003300'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=ecemailstyle23><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#003300'>The
attached word document contains figure descriptions from the IAC and AMA web
sites. They all describe the maneuver as starting or ending with the looping
segments with no mention of a lead-in or exit line. It appears to me that the
Aresti drawings are for reference only and not to be used as a required flight
path.</span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=ecemailstyle23><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#003300'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=ecemailstyle23><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#003300'>I
expect this will come up in our judging seminar and I will fly and judge it
however Gary says.</span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=ecemailstyle23><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#003300'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=ecemailstyle23><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#003300'>Jim</span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=ecemailstyle22><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#003300'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b>From:</b> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b>On Behalf Of </b>J N Hiller<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 02, 2009 10:30 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Happy New Year</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=ecemailstyle21><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#993366'>George
don't worry about me being ostracized I spent the bulk of my working life
pointing out details to coworkers, managers and consultants who were generally
unaware or disinterested. The consultants were fun, it didn't take long to
overload them and I outlasted most of the managers. </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=ecemailstyle21><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#993366'>The
devil is always in a seemingly unending string of details. During my years in
management, writing 'How It Works' documents filled with detail, I found most
folks were overwhelmed if exposed to all of it but it was necessary reference
material. </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=ecemailstyle21><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#993366'>Most
management meetings were filled with discussions exposing details and the
relative importance to the individuals concerned. It was always enlightening. </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=ecemailstyle21><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#993366'>I guess
what I am trying to say is that highly detailed rule books like highly detailed
SOP manuals can become so overwhelming that they become dust collectors. Kind
of like the snap roll discussions where too much equals nothing. Yes it's time
to dump a lot of old e-mail. </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=ecemailstyle21><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#993366'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=ecemailstyle21><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#993366'>I'm one
of those strange individuals that fly pattern or IMAC for the challenge and
self-satisfaction and yes I judge my flying but I don't question the scores
awarded. We all see it a little differently and there is always room for improvement
but before the NSRCA judging clarification guidelines and training, score
sheets could be 'interesting'. </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=ecemailstyle21><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#993366'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=ecemailstyle21><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#993366'>Anyway
thanks for enlightening me regarding the finishing point of the half reverse
cuban. I thought the maneuver separation line started upon completion of the
partial loop. Something else to watch for when judging! </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=ecemailstyle21><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#993366'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=ecemailstyle21><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#993366'>Yes I
read all your postings and responses.</span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=ecemailstyle21><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#993366'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=ecemailstyle21><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#993366'>Jim</span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=ecemailstyle21><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#993366'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span class=ecemailstyle21><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#993366'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b>From:</b> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b>On Behalf Of </b>george w.
kennie<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 02, 2009 6:50 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Happy New Year</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='color:black'> </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Jim,</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='color:black'> </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I'M A NOBODY
!!!!!!!!!!!! If you fall into the trap of taking anything I say as
Gospel you may be opening yourself up to opposition and ostricism, so be
forewarned.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='color:black'> </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>My reason for dealing with the
clover was to establish some sense of what size to make the loops. As you can
see, when you clearly understand the geometry, the required size becomes a dictate.
It's all in the details, Jim. Some people feel that I'm over detail oriented,
but unless you understand the details you can't effectively perform OR judge
the maneuver accurately. I inadvertently abdicated my own mantra by
loosely referring to the looping portion of the clover as loops, when they're
3/4 loops. My bad. You sound like you have a good handle on the
clover. I would add that you further concentrate on making sure the vertical up
and down lines are dead-on superimpositionally.</span><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='color:black'> </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I also agree with the floor to
ceiling approach as I'm constantly telling new guys that I work with to
"make it bigger." Adding to that the requirement to maintain
maneuver to maneuver relative size relationships, which addresses your question
regarding the Sportsman's Cobra. Ya can't have a mini-Reverse and a
gigandi Cobra. I'm glad you referenced that problem as it's a prime example of
what I was talking about in my discussion on "maneuver
end-points." I think I remember a lot of agreement in previous discussions
about the problem resulting in the conclusion that maneuver # 3 and # 8 needed
to be switched to alleviate the cramping issue. I even thought this to be a
viable solution at the time, that is, 'til you brought it up and then I
realized that I was missing my own point. There is no size difference
between the 1/2 Cuban and the 1/2 Reverse Cuban. That Reverse doesn't end until
you get all the way back to the beginning of the ENTRY line. CHECK THE
ARESTI ! So, you see there is no advantage either way. What was
probably needed was something like a Humpty.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='color:black'> </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Regarding the roll rate issue.
I'm glad that Matt referenced that as I was going to offer the three rolls in 5
seconds, but refrained as it's too vague and would be quickly
challenged. The 3 second rule on the Slow is a minimum value with no
maximum indicated. It should be pretty obvious that there should be a visually
discernable differential between the two and becomes somewhat subjective. This
1.67 second interval for the standard roll being established as a maximum value
would quickly come under attack I'm sure. I don't know how the legislative
process could be achieved on that one.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='color:black'> </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>My feeling, and it's only a
feeling on the Cuban with 2 of 4 is similar to my stand on the triangle with
the roll across the top i.e. presentable centering. I like to see a
clearly defined line before and after the rolling element and would prefer to
see the roll consume less of the overall downline area than the two
straight-line segments, but that's just ME. I confess that I would
not like to see a standard rate that's so fast that I can't keep up to the
required corrections.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='color:black'> </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I'd also like to thank you for
your feedback. I wasn't sure anyone would read the whole diatribe.</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='color:black'> </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Georgie </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='color:black'> </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='color:black'> </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><span style='color:black'> </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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