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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle24><font size=2 color=olive
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>That is interesting. I didn't pay much attention to that when collecting
the info.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle24><font size=2 color=olive
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle24><font size=2 color=olive
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>After observing some IAC competition I can understand the difference. It
can be difficult for some low powered aircraft to maintain airspeed while pulling
a large 5/8 loop in order to have enough height to exit on the entry altitude. Where
most can preserve enough energy to pull the 45 degree line allowing plenty of height
to complete the 5/8 loop from the top. I don't know if IAC allows altitude
changes or not but having observed several flights I would find it difficult to
judge altitude changes, at least in lower class competition flown at higher
altitudes. Interesting nonetheless.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle24><font size=2 color=olive
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle24><font size=2 color=olive
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>Jim<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle24><font size=2 color=olive
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun:
yes"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle24><font size=2 color=olive
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>billglaze<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, January 05, 2009
9:50 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Happy New Year</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Interesting
if one takes the verbatim descriptions. It would seem that on the Half
Cuban an altitude change on finishing is permitted, because it is specifically
mentioned. Such mention is missing on the Reverse Cuban.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Any
significance?</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>-----
Original Message ----- </span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;background:#E4E4E4;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>
<div style='font-color:black'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net" title="jnhiller@earthlink.net">J N Hiller</a>
</span></font></div>
<font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> </span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> Sunday, January 04,
2009 9:28 PM</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Happy New Year</span></font><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>George I'm
back.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I was
hoping someone would advance the discussion regarding the finish point of the
reverse cuban eight being equal to it's start. Since no one has I can't sit
back and watch. Sorry but I disagree. <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Somebody
please correct me if I am wrong but as I remember from previous judging seminars
'all maneuvers start from and finish with straight and level flight' (upright
or inverted). This leads me to believe maneuvers start and stop when they
deviate from S&L flight in either roll or pitch and do not include either a
lead in or exit line segment.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>As you
know, Aresti figures are a universal / international language used by IAC
competitors. They are often displayed on their instrument panels as a sequence
quick reference guide. If we were to try to fly each figure as drawn most
turnarounds would need an altitude change with some having strange angles. If
all turnaround maneuvers finished or started with their widest part, either
entering or exiting something like the reverse humpty which is 3 radiuses wide,
if flown on line, would need to include an exit line equal to 2 radiuses in
length. I don't think so!<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The
attached word document contains figure descriptions from the IAC and AMA web
sites. They all describe the maneuver as starting or ending with the looping
segments with no mention of a lead-in or exit line. It appears to me that the
Aresti drawings are for reference only and not to be used as a required flight
path.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I expect
this will come up in our judging seminar and I will fly and judge it however
Gary says.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Jim<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle22><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>J N Hiller<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, January 02, 2009
10:30 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Happy New Year</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>George
don't worry about me being ostracized I spent the bulk of my working life
pointing out details to coworkers, managers and consultants who were generally
unaware or disinterested. The consultants were fun, it didn't take long to
overload them and I outlasted most of the managers. <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The devil
is always in a seemingly unending string of details. During my years in
management, writing 'How It Works' documents filled with detail, I found most
folks were overwhelmed if exposed to all of it but it was necessary reference
material. <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Most
management meetings were filled with discussions exposing details and the
relative importance to the individuals concerned. It was always enlightening. <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I guess
what I am trying to say is that highly detailed rule books like highly detailed
SOP manuals can become so overwhelming that they become dust collectors. Kind
of like the snap roll discussions where too much equals nothing. Yes it's time
to dump a lot of old e-mail. <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I'm one of
those strange individuals that fly pattern or IMAC for the challenge and
self-satisfaction and yes I judge my flying but I don't question the scores
awarded. We all see it a little differently and there is always room for
improvement but before the NSRCA judging clarification guidelines and training,
score sheets could be 'interesting'. <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Anyway
thanks for enlightening me regarding the finishing point of the half reverse
cuban. I thought the maneuver separation line started upon completion of the
partial loop. Something else to watch for when judging! <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Yes I read
all your postings and responses.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Jim<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>george w. kennie<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, January 02, 2009
6:50 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Happy New Year</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>Jim,</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>I'M A NOBODY !!!!!!!!!!!! If you fall into the trap of
taking anything I say as Gospel you may be opening yourself up to opposition
and ostricism, so be forewarned.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>My reason for dealing with the clover was to establish some sense
of what size to make the loops. As you can see, when you clearly understand the
geometry, the required size becomes a dictate. It's all in
the details, Jim. Some people feel that I'm over detail oriented, but unless
you understand the details you can't effectively perform OR judge the maneuver
accurately. I inadvertently abdicated my own mantra by loosely referring
to the looping portion of the clover as loops, when they're 3/4 loops. My bad.
You sound like you have a good handle on the clover. I would add that you
further concentrate on making sure the vertical up and down lines are dead-on
superimpositionally.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>I also agree with the floor to ceiling approach as I'm constantly
telling new guys that I work with to "make it bigger." Adding
to that the requirement to maintain maneuver to maneuver relative size
relationships, which addresses your question regarding the Sportsman's
Cobra. Ya can't have a mini-Reverse and a gigandi Cobra. I'm glad you
referenced that problem as it's a prime example of what I was talking about in
my discussion on "maneuver end-points." I think I remember a
lot of agreement in previous discussions about the problem resulting in the
conclusion that maneuver # 3 and # 8 needed to be switched to alleviate the
cramping issue. I even thought this to be a viable solution at the time, that
is, 'til you brought it up and then I realized that I was missing my
own point. There is no size difference between the 1/2 Cuban and the 1/2
Reverse Cuban. That Reverse doesn't end until you get all the way back to the
beginning of the ENTRY line. CHECK THE ARESTI ! So, you see
there is no advantage either way. What was probably needed was something like a
Humpty.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>Regarding the roll rate issue. I'm glad that Matt referenced that
as I was going to offer the three rolls in 5 seconds, but refrained as
it's too vague and would be quickly challenged. The 3 second rule on the
Slow is a minimum value with no maximum indicated. It should be pretty obvious
that there should be a visually discernable differential between the two and
becomes somewhat subjective. This 1.67 second interval for the standard roll
being established as a maximum value would quickly come under attack I'm sure.
I don't know how the legislative process could be achieved on that one.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>My feeling, and it's only a feeling on the Cuban with 2
of 4 is similar to my stand on the triangle with the roll across the top i.e.
presentable centering. I like to see a clearly defined line before
and after the rolling element and would prefer to see the roll consume less of
the overall downline area than the two straight-line segments, but that's just ME. I
confess that I would not like to see a standard rate that's so fast that I
can't keep up to the required corrections.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>I'd also like to thank you for your feedback. I wasn't sure
anyone would read the whole diatribe.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>Georgie </span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:111.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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