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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I had been told about the altitude requirement at a
contest, so I asked Don Ramsey about it via email. The requirement in the
maneuver description of the time only said "track' which to me means the plan
view of the airplane's path. He wrote to me that it meant path and
altitude also. While I didn't care for the interpretation, when I was told
that was the way it was, that is the way I judge it. If I get another
"official" interpretation that's counter, I'll joyfully change.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jnhiller@earthlink.net href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net">J N
Hiller</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 05, 2009 4:04
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Happy New
Year</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=578545820-05012009><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial>Where
do you find that. Here is what it says in the Sportsman Judge
training presentation for both the half cuban and half reverse cuban
eights (401-15).</FONT><FONT size=4>
<P align=left><FONT face=Arial>��</FONT></FONT><B><FONT face=Arial
size=4>NOTE: In a TAmaneuver, entry and exit altitude changes are allowed. To
change altitude in thismaneuver, the 45 degree line may be extended or
truncated. All loop radii must remain equal.</FONT></B></P>
<P align=left><FONT size=4><FONT face=Arial size=2><A
href="http://nsrca.us/documents/judging/currentamaschedules/PPT_Sportsman2007.pdf">http://nsrca.us/documents/judging/currentamaschedules/PPT_Sportsman2007.pdf</A></FONT></FONT></P>
<P align=left><FONT size=4><SPAN class=578545820-05012009><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Jim</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of
</B>billglaze<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 05, 2009 12:42
PM<BR><B>To:</B> General pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Happy New Year<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>One maneuver in Sportsman, goes counter to all other
turnaround figures of which I know. The Half Reverse Cuban should be
entered/exited at the same altitude. I know it's IMHO silly to have
different criteria for the same maneuver, but there it is.
Particularly to have that requirement in sportsman, but there it is. I
can quote the "authority" of the day, if necessary.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=trexlesh@msn.com href="mailto:trexlesh@msn.com">Rex</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, January 05, 2009 3:04
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Happy
New Year</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>You are correct, Jim.... for both AMA and
FAI.<BR><BR>
<HR id=stopSpelling>
From: <A
href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net">jnhiller@earthlink.net</A><BR>To: <A
href="mailto:cahochhalter@yahoo.com">cahochhalter@yahoo.com</A>; <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>Date:
Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:23:51 -0800<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Happy
New Year<BR><BR>
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<DIV class=EC_Section1>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN class=EC_EmailStyle123><FONT face=Arial
color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">With
respect to pattern it's my understand that all turnaround maneuvers except
the sportsman, straight flight out / stall turn / straight flight back,
can be used to adjust altitude.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN class=EC_EmailStyle123><FONT face=Arial
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><SPAN class=EC_EmailStyle123><FONT face=Arial
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma
color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Charles
Hochhalter<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday,
January 05, 2009 9:59 AM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern
discussion<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Happy New Year</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<TABLE style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; WIDTH: 433.5pt" cellSpacing=0
cellPadding=0 width=578 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in"
vAlign=top>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit">If I
read it correctly about any turnaround maneuver is considered as an
altitude adjusting maneuver.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=inherit color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit">Love
these discussions... sometimes nervous to speak up and prove you are
wrong rather than participate and learn...
hehhehe</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=inherit color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=inherit color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit">Chuck<BR><BR>---
On <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Mon, 1/5/09, billglaze
<I><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic"><billglaze@bellsouth.net></SPAN></I></SPAN></B>
wrote:</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT
face=inherit color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit">From:
billglaze <billglaze@bellsouth.net><BR>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Happy New Year<BR>To: "General pattern
discussion" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Date:
Monday, January 5, 2009, 5:50 PM</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT
face=inherit color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit">
<DIV id=EC_yiv271030537>Interesting if one takes the verbatim
descriptions. It would seem that on the Half Cuban an altitude
change on finishing is permitted, because it is specifically
mentioned. Such mention is missing on the Reverse
Cuban.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT> <BR>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT
face=inherit color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit">Any
significance?</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=inherit color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 7.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">-----
Original Message ----- </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 7.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=jnhiller@earthlink.net href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net"
rel=nofollow>J N Hiller</A> </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial
color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 7.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" rel=nofollow>General
pattern discussion</A> </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 7.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Sunday,
January 04, 2009 9:28 PM</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 7.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Happy New Year</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial
color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 7.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT
face=inherit color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=inherit color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: inherit"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><SPAN
class=EC_emailstyle23><FONT face=Arial color=#003300 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #003300; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">George
I'm back.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><SPAN
class=EC_emailstyle23><FONT face=Arial color=#003300 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #003300; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I was
hoping someone would advance the discussion regarding the finish
point of the reverse cuban eight being equal to it's start. Since no
one has I can't sit back and watch. Sorry but I disagree.
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><SPAN
class=EC_emailstyle23><FONT face=Arial color=#003300 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #003300; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><SPAN
class=EC_emailstyle23><FONT face=Arial color=#003300 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #003300; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Somebody
please correct me if I am wrong but as I remember from previous
judging seminars 'all maneuvers start from and finish with straight
and level flight' (upright or inverted). This leads me to believe
maneuvers start and stop when they deviate from S&L flight in
either roll or pitch and do not include either a lead in or exit
line segment.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><SPAN
class=EC_emailstyle23><FONT face=Arial color=#003300 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #003300; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><SPAN
class=EC_emailstyle23><FONT face=Arial color=#003300 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #003300; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">As you
know, Aresti figures are a universal / international language used
by IAC competitors. They are often displayed on their instrument
panels as a sequence quick reference guide. If we were to try to fly
each figure as drawn most turnarounds would need an altitude change
with some having strange angles. If all turnaround maneuvers
finished or started with their widest part, either entering or
exiting something like the reverse humpty which is 3 radiuses wide,
if flown on line, would need to include an exit line equal to 2
radiuses in length. I don't think so!</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><SPAN
class=EC_emailstyle23><FONT face=Arial color=#003300 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #003300; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><SPAN
class=EC_emailstyle23><FONT face=Arial color=#003300 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #003300; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The
attached word document contains figure descriptions from the IAC and
AMA web sites. They all describe the maneuver as starting or ending
with the looping segments with no mention of a lead-in or exit line.
It appears to me that the Aresti drawings are for reference only and
not to be used as a required flight path.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><SPAN
class=EC_emailstyle23><FONT face=Arial color=#003300 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #003300; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><SPAN
class=EC_emailstyle23><FONT face=Arial color=#003300 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #003300; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I expect
this will come up in our judging seminar and I will fly and judge it
however Gary says.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
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class=EC_emailstyle23><FONT face=Arial color=#003300 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #003300; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><SPAN
class=EC_emailstyle23><FONT face=Arial color=#003300 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #003300; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
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class=EC_emailstyle22><FONT face=Arial color=#003300 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #003300; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>J N
Hiller<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B>
Friday, January 02, 2009 10:30 AM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern
discussion<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Happy New Year</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><SPAN
class=EC_emailstyle21><FONT face=Arial color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993366; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">George
don't worry about me being ostracized I spent the bulk of my working
life pointing out details to coworkers, managers and consultants who
were generally unaware or disinterested. The consultants were fun,
it didn't take long to overload them and I outlasted most of the
managers. </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><SPAN
class=EC_emailstyle21><FONT face=Arial color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993366; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The
devil is always in a seemingly unending string of details. During my
years in management, writing 'How It Works' documents filled with
detail, I found most folks were overwhelmed if exposed to all of it
but it was necessary reference material. </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><SPAN
class=EC_emailstyle21><FONT face=Arial color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993366; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Most
management meetings were filled with discussions exposing details
and the relative importance to the individuals concerned. It was
always enlightening. </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><SPAN
class=EC_emailstyle21><FONT face=Arial color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993366; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I guess
what I am trying to say is that highly detailed rule books like
highly detailed SOP manuals can become so overwhelming that they
become dust collectors. Kind of like the snap roll discussions where
too much equals nothing. Yes it's time to dump a lot of old e-mail.
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><SPAN
class=EC_emailstyle21><FONT face=Arial color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993366; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><SPAN
class=EC_emailstyle21><FONT face=Arial color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993366; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I'm one
of those strange individuals that fly pattern or IMAC for the
challenge and self-satisfaction and yes I judge my flying but I
don't question the scores awarded. We all see it a little
differently and there is always room for improvement but before the
NSRCA judging clarification guidelines and training, score sheets
could be 'interesting'. </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><SPAN
class=EC_emailstyle21><FONT face=Arial color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993366; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><SPAN
class=EC_emailstyle21><FONT face=Arial color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993366; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Anyway
thanks for enlightening me regarding the finishing point of the half
reverse cuban. I thought the maneuver separation line started upon
completion of the partial loop. Something else to watch for when
judging! </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><SPAN
class=EC_emailstyle21><FONT face=Arial color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993366; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><SPAN
class=EC_emailstyle21><FONT face=Arial color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993366; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Yes I
read all your postings and responses.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><SPAN
class=EC_emailstyle21><FONT face=Arial color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993366; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><SPAN
class=EC_emailstyle21><FONT face=Arial color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993366; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
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class=EC_emailstyle21><FONT face=Arial color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993366; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 43.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><SPAN
class=EC_emailstyle21><FONT face=Arial color=#993366 size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993366; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 79.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>george w.
kennie<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B>
Friday, January 02, 2009 6:50 AM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern
discussion<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Happy New Year</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 79.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 79.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim,</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 79.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 79.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I'M A
NOBODY !!!!!!!!!!!! If you fall into the trap of taking
anything I say as Gospel you may be opening yourself up to
opposition and ostricism, so be forewarned.</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 79.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 79.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My reason
for dealing with the clover was to establish some sense of what size
to make the loops. As you can see, when you clearly understand the
geometry, the required size becomes a dictate.
It's all in the details, Jim. Some people feel that I'm over detail
oriented, but unless you understand the details you can't
effectively perform OR judge the maneuver accurately. I
inadvertently abdicated my own mantra by loosely referring to the
looping portion of the clover as loops, when they're 3/4 loops. My
bad. You sound like you have a good handle on the clover.
I would add that you further concentrate on making sure the vertical
up and down lines are dead-on
superimpositionally.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
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face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 79.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I also
agree with the floor to ceiling approach as I'm constantly telling
new guys that I work with to "make it bigger." Adding to that
the requirement to maintain maneuver to maneuver relative size
relationships, which addresses your question regarding the
Sportsman's Cobra. Ya can't have a mini-Reverse and a gigandi
Cobra. I'm glad you referenced that problem as it's a prime example
of what I was talking about in my discussion on "maneuver
end-points." I think I remember a lot of agreement in previous
discussions about the problem resulting in the conclusion that
maneuver # 3 and # 8 needed to be switched to alleviate the cramping
issue. I even thought this to be a viable solution at the time, that
is, 'til you brought it up and then I realized that I was
missing my own point. There is no size difference between the
1/2 Cuban and the 1/2 Reverse Cuban. That Reverse doesn't end until
you get all the way back to the beginning of the ENTRY line.
CHECK THE ARESTI ! So, you see there is no advantage
either way. What was probably needed was something like a
Humpty.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 79.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 79.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Regarding
the roll rate issue. I'm glad that Matt referenced that as I was
going to offer the three rolls in 5 seconds, but refrained as
it's too vague and would be quickly challenged. The 3 second
rule on the Slow is a minimum value with no maximum indicated. It
should be pretty obvious that there should be a visually discernable
differential between the two and becomes somewhat subjective. This
1.67 second interval for the standard roll being established as a
maximum value would quickly come under attack I'm sure. I don't know
how the legislative process could be achieved on that
one.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 79.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 79.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My
feeling, and it's only a feeling on the Cuban with 2 of 4
is similar to my stand on the triangle with the roll across the top
i.e. presentable centering. I like to see a clearly
defined line before and after the rolling element and would prefer
to see the roll consume less of the overall downline area than the
two straight-line segments, but that's just ME. I confess
that I would not like to see a standard rate that's so fast that I
can't keep up to the required corrections.</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 79.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 79.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I'd also
like to thank you for your feedback. I wasn't sure anyone
would read the whole diatribe.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 79.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 79.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT
face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Georgie
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 79.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 79.5pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0.5in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
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