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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle123><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>With respect to pattern it's my understand that all turnaround maneuvers
except the sportsman, straight flight out / stall turn / straight flight back,
can be used to adjust altitude.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle123><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>Jim<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle123><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Charles Hochhalter<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, January 05, 2009
9:59 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Happy New Year</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width=578 style='width:433.5pt;
mso-cellspacing:0in;margin-left:.5in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<tr>
<td valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=inherit><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:inherit;color:black'>If I read it
correctly about any turnaround maneuver is considered as an altitude
adjusting maneuver.</span></font><font color=black face=inherit><span
style='font-family:inherit;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=inherit><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:inherit;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black face=inherit><span style='font-family:inherit;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=inherit><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:inherit;color:black'>Love these
discussions... sometimes nervous to speak up and prove you are wrong rather
than participate and learn... hehhehe</span></font><font color=black
face=inherit><span style='font-family:inherit;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=inherit><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:inherit;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black face=inherit><span style='font-family:inherit;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=inherit><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:inherit;color:black'>Chuck<br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Mon, 1/5/09, billglaze <i><span
style='font-style:italic'><billglaze@bellsouth.net></span></i></span></b>
wrote:</span></font><font color=black face=inherit><span style='font-family:
inherit;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face=inherit><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:inherit;color:black'>From:
billglaze <billglaze@bellsouth.net><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Happy New Year<br>
To: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 5:50 PM</span></font><font color=black
face=inherit><span style='font-family:inherit;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=black face=inherit><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
inherit;color:black'>
<div id=yiv271030537>Interesting if one takes the verbatim descriptions.
It would seem that on the Half Cuban an altitude change on finishing is
permitted, because it is specifically mentioned. Such mention is
missing on the Reverse Cuban.</span></font><font color=black face=inherit><span
style='font-family:inherit;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:3.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=black face=inherit><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
inherit;color:black'>Any significance?</span></font><font color=black
face=inherit><span style='font-family:inherit;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>----- Original Message ----- </span></font><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;background:#E4E4E4;border:none;
mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> <a href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net" target="_blank"
title="jnhiller@earthlink.net" rel=nofollow>J N Hiller</a> </span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" rel=nofollow>General pattern
discussion</a> </span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> Sunday, January 04, 2009 9:28 PM</span></font><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Happy New Year</span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face=inherit><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
inherit;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
color=black face=inherit><span style='font-family:inherit;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle23><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'>George I'm back.</span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle23><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'>I was hoping someone
would advance the discussion regarding the finish point of the reverse cuban
eight being equal to it's start. Since no one has I can't sit back and watch.
Sorry but I disagree. </span></font></span><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle23><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'> </span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle23><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'>Somebody please
correct me if I am wrong but as I remember from previous judging seminars
'all maneuvers start from and finish with straight and level flight' (upright
or inverted). This leads me to believe maneuvers start and stop when they
deviate from S&L flight in either roll or pitch and do not include either
a lead in or exit line segment.</span></font></span><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle23><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'> </span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle23><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'>As you know, Aresti
figures are a universal / international language used by IAC competitors.
They are often displayed on their instrument panels as a sequence quick
reference guide. If we were to try to fly each figure as drawn most
turnarounds would need an altitude change with some having strange angles. If
all turnaround maneuvers finished or started with their widest part, either
entering or exiting something like the reverse humpty which is 3 radiuses
wide, if flown on line, would need to include an exit line equal to 2
radiuses in length. I don't think so!</span></font></span><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle23><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'> </span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle23><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'>The attached word
document contains figure descriptions from the IAC and AMA web sites. They
all describe the maneuver as starting or ending with the looping segments
with no mention of a lead-in or exit line. It appears to me that the Aresti
drawings are for reference only and not to be used as a required flight path.</span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle23><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'> </span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle23><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'>I expect this will
come up in our judging seminar and I will fly and judge it however Gary says.</span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle23><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'> </span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle23><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'>Jim</span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle22><font size=2 color="#003300" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#003300'> </span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>J N Hiller<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, January 02, 2009
10:30 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Happy New Year</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>George don't worry
about me being ostracized I spent the bulk of my working life pointing out
details to coworkers, managers and consultants who were generally unaware or
disinterested. The consultants were fun, it didn't take long to overload them
and I outlasted most of the managers. </span></font></span><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>The devil is always
in a seemingly unending string of details. During my years in management,
writing 'How It Works' documents filled with detail, I found most folks were
overwhelmed if exposed to all of it but it was necessary reference material. </span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>Most management
meetings were filled with discussions exposing details and the relative
importance to the individuals concerned. It was always enlightening. </span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>I guess what I am
trying to say is that highly detailed rule books like highly detailed SOP
manuals can become so overwhelming that they become dust collectors. Kind of
like the snap roll discussions where too much equals nothing. Yes it's time
to dump a lot of old e-mail. </span></font></span><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'> </span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>I'm one of those
strange individuals that fly pattern or IMAC for the challenge and self-satisfaction
and yes I judge my flying but I don't question the scores awarded. We all see
it a little differently and there is always room for improvement but before
the NSRCA judging clarification guidelines and training, score sheets could
be 'interesting'. </span></font></span><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'> </span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>Anyway thanks for
enlightening me regarding the finishing point of the half reverse cuban. I
thought the maneuver separation line started upon completion of the partial
loop. Something else to watch for when judging! </span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'> </span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>Yes I read all your
postings and responses.</span></font></span><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'> </span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'>Jim</span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'> </span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=emailstyle21><font size=2 color="#993366" face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'> </span></font></span><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>george w. kennie<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, January 02, 2009
6:50 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Happy New Year</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>Jim,</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>I'M A NOBODY !!!!!!!!!!!! If you fall into the trap
of taking anything I say as Gospel you may be opening yourself up to
opposition and ostricism, so be forewarned.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>My reason for dealing with the clover was to establish some
sense of what size to make the loops. As you can see, when you clearly
understand the geometry, the required size becomes a
dictate. It's all in the details, Jim. Some people feel
that I'm over detail oriented, but unless you understand the details you
can't effectively perform OR judge the maneuver accurately. I
inadvertently abdicated my own mantra by loosely referring to the looping
portion of the clover as loops, when they're 3/4 loops. My bad. You
sound like you have a good handle on the clover. I would add that you
further concentrate on making sure the vertical up and down lines are dead-on
superimpositionally.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>I also agree with the floor to ceiling approach as I'm
constantly telling new guys that I work with to "make it
bigger." Adding to that the requirement to maintain maneuver to
maneuver relative size relationships, which addresses your question regarding
the Sportsman's Cobra. Ya can't have a mini-Reverse and a gigandi
Cobra. I'm glad you referenced that problem as it's a prime example of what I
was talking about in my discussion on "maneuver end-points."
I think I remember a lot of agreement in previous discussions about the
problem resulting in the conclusion that maneuver # 3 and # 8 needed to be
switched to alleviate the cramping issue. I even thought this to be a viable
solution at the time, that is, 'til you brought it up and then I
realized that I was missing my own point. There is no size
difference between the 1/2 Cuban and the 1/2 Reverse Cuban. That Reverse
doesn't end until you get all the way back to the beginning of the ENTRY
line. CHECK THE ARESTI ! So, you see there is no advantage
either way. What was probably needed was something like a Humpty.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>Regarding the roll rate issue. I'm glad that Matt referenced
that as I was going to offer the three rolls in 5 seconds, but refrained
as it's too vague and would be quickly challenged. The 3 second rule on
the Slow is a minimum value with no maximum indicated. It should be pretty
obvious that there should be a visually discernable differential between the
two and becomes somewhat subjective. This 1.67 second interval for the
standard roll being established as a maximum value would quickly come under
attack I'm sure. I don't know how the legislative process could be achieved
on that one.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>My feeling, and it's only a feeling on the Cuban with
2 of 4 is similar to my stand on the triangle with the roll across the top
i.e. presentable centering. I like to see a clearly defined line
before and after the rolling element and would prefer to see the roll consume
less of the overall downline area than the two straight-line segments, but
that's just ME. I confess that I would not like to see a standard
rate that's so fast that I can't keep up to the required corrections.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>I'd also like to thank you for your feedback. I wasn't
sure anyone would read the whole diatribe.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>Georgie </span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:79.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:
auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;text-align:center;
border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:
0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black face=inherit><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:inherit;color:black'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:7.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face=inherit><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
inherit;color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</span></font><font
color=black face=inherit><span style='font-family:inherit;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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