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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>George don't worry about me being ostracized I spent the bulk of my
working life pointing out details to coworkers, managers and consultants who
were generally unaware or disinterested. The consultants were fun, it didn't
take long to overload them and I outlasted most of the managers. <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>The devil is always in a seemingly unending string of details. During my
years in management, writing 'How It Works' documents filled with detail, I
found most folks were overwhelmed if exposed to all of it but it was necessary
reference material. <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>Most management meetings were filled with discussions exposing details and
the relative importance to the individuals concerned. It was always enlightening.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>I guess what I am trying to say is that highly detailed rule books like highly
detailed SOP manuals can become so overwhelming that they become dust
collectors. Kind of like the snap roll discussions where too much equals
nothing. Yes it's time to dump a lot of old e-mail. <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>I'm one of those strange individuals that fly pattern or IMAC for the challenge
and self-satisfaction and yes I judge my flying but I don't question the scores
awarded. We all see it a little differently and there is always room for
improvement but before the NSRCA judging clarification guidelines and training,
score sheets could be 'interesting'. <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>Anyway thanks for enlightening me regarding the finishing point of the
half reverse cuban. I thought the maneuver separation line started upon completion
of the partial loop. Something else to watch for when judging! <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>Yes I read all your postings and responses.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>Jim<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle21><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>george w. kennie<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, January 02, 2009
6:50 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Happy New Year</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Jim,</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I'M A
NOBODY !!!!!!!!!!!! If you fall into the trap of taking anything I
say as Gospel you may be opening yourself up to opposition and ostricism, so be
forewarned.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>My
reason for dealing with the clover was to establish some sense of what size to
make the loops. As you can see, when you clearly understand the geometry, the
required size becomes a dictate. It's all in the details,
Jim. Some people feel that I'm over detail oriented, but unless you understand
the details you can't effectively perform OR judge the maneuver
accurately. I inadvertently abdicated my own mantra by loosely referring
to the looping portion of the clover as loops, when they're 3/4 loops. My
bad. You sound like you have a good handle on the clover. I would
add that you further concentrate on making sure the vertical up and down lines
are dead-on superimpositionally.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I also
agree with the floor to ceiling approach as I'm constantly telling new guys
that I work with to "make it bigger." Adding to that the
requirement to maintain maneuver to maneuver relative size relationships, which
addresses your question regarding the Sportsman's Cobra. Ya can't have a
mini-Reverse and a gigandi Cobra. I'm glad you referenced that problem as it's
a prime example of what I was talking about in my discussion on "maneuver
end-points." I think I remember a lot of agreement in previous
discussions about the problem resulting in the conclusion that maneuver # 3 and
# 8 needed to be switched to alleviate the cramping issue. I even thought this
to be a viable solution at the time, that is, 'til you brought it up and
then I realized that I was missing my own point. There is no size
difference between the 1/2 Cuban and the 1/2 Reverse Cuban. That Reverse
doesn't end until you get all the way back to the beginning of the ENTRY
line. CHECK THE ARESTI ! So, you see there is no advantage
either way. What was probably needed was something like a Humpty.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Regarding
the roll rate issue. I'm glad that Matt referenced that as I was going to offer
the three rolls in 5 seconds, but refrained as it's too vague and would be
quickly challenged. The 3 second rule on the Slow is a minimum value with
no maximum indicated. It should be pretty obvious that there should be a
visually discernable differential between the two and becomes somewhat
subjective. This 1.67 second interval for the standard roll being established
as a maximum value would quickly come under attack I'm sure. I don't know how
the legislative process could be achieved on that one.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>My
feeling, and it's only a feeling on the Cuban with 2 of 4 is similar
to my stand on the triangle with the roll across the top i.e. presentable
centering. I like to see a clearly defined line before and after the
rolling element and would prefer to see the roll consume less of the overall
downline area than the two straight-line segments, but that's
just ME. I confess that I would not like to see a standard rate
that's so fast that I can't keep up to the required corrections.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I'd
also like to thank you for your feedback. I wasn't sure anyone would read
the whole diatribe.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Georgie
</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>-----
Original Message ----- </span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;background:#E4E4E4;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>
<div style='font-color:black'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net" title="jnhiller@earthlink.net">J N Hiller</a>
</span></font></div>
<font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> </span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> Thursday, January 01,
2009 4:00 PM</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Happy New Year</span></font><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Hi George this is Jim
Hiller. Thank you for bringing these issues to my attention. OH happy New Year
to you as well. I am waiting for it to stop snowing so I can get my daily
exercise. <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I don't fly FAI but I am
called on occasionally to judge it. Although not on of my favorite activities I
do try to get it right and a consensuses of is necessary or we are back to
local judging rules interpretation.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>A agree with you on the
hesitation rolls. I believe that a 2 of 2 or 2 of 4 roll consists of three
elements not four (1/4 roll, line, 1/4 roll) wherever it is done rather it is
in a combination maneuver or not. It's been a while since I looked at the rules
but when a point roll is combined with a snap or aileron roll the two need to
be together without a noticeable line between them.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I really appreciate the
enlightenment regarding the half clover, which I now need to fly. Great, center
the horizontal crossover on the vertical 2 of 4 up and half roll down. In
contrast to the above the rolling elements need to be centered on a line
requiring a discernable line before and after of equal length, the length of
which will need to equal two radiuses (1/2 height). The size of this first
master's class maneuver will establish the floor and ceiling lines. I expect
this will be addressed in the judging seminar this spring. In any case it gives
me something to strive for.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The sequence layout and
turnaround altitude change kind of run to gather. In helping a new pattern
flier through the sportsman sequence there was a consistent problem centering
the Cobra after the Half Cuban Eight. Both of these maneuvers are sized 'floor
to ceiling' (best presentation) a lot of horizontal length is needed placing
the airplane beyond a Sportsman's visibility / ability limit. Re-enter the box
high and flying a small radius Cuban, a low exit exiting resulted due to the
'45 line, half roll, 45 line' length but it finished closer to the box end
allowing a less rushed entry into the Cobra. Should this altitude allowance be
continued and or used for convenience? I don't know! If the Cobra had been
preceded with a Half Reverse Cuban there would have been plenty of room to
enter a nice size Cobra.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Roll rates! I too am bugged
by roll rates especially slow roll rates used in hesitation rolls, as if the
pilot is sneaking up on the point rather than hitting it, often without a
discernible hesitation between them. As for slow v/s aileron rolls, the
3-second rule may not be very appropriate in turnaround style aerobatic
presentation. For best presentation the line length consumed would be a better
measure, such as 1/2 box width for a slow roll and maybe 1/8 box width for an
aileron roll. <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Just another opinion!<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Jim<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>george w. kennie<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, January 01, 2009
10:40 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> NSRCA Mailing List<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [NSRCA-discussion] Happy
New Year</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>To all you guys who monitor this list, I not only want to wish you
all a wonderful New Year, but I wish to convey to each how this terrific
interaction that we enjoy on this medium has made my life far more interesting
and fulfilled and rewarding because of your participation in the process. We
may not all share the same viewpoints, but the exposure to various
understandings is always enlightening and of value.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>This may not be your experience and I can respect that, so you may
not be interested in what follows and that's O.K., but I kinda made a promise
to Tom Miller at last years Nats that I would attempt to address a couple of
issues that came up during a somewhat passionate discussion that took place in
the Gazebo on Sunday evening regarding a couple of rules interpretations.
Please understand that the viewpoints expressed here by me are purely my
opinions and the reasoning behind those conclusions and any corrections to my
erroneous offerings will be welcomed. </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>The first point that was put forth by my worthy adversary was in
regard to Hesitation Rolls. In his understanding, he submitted that a
point in a point roll included the hesitation and therefore the first
maneuver in P-09, the Double Immelman with 2 of 4 points first, must
be flown with a space after the second point in order to fulfill the
requirement of his interpretation of the maneuver.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>This is in total opposition to what the rulebook states. I'm here
to tell you that the POINT and the HESITATION are TWO separate and
distinct entities. How do I know that? Think about it for a second. What do you
do in a verticle up-line with 2 of 4? Do you include the hesitation portion of
the roll in the line? If you did and you treated this as ONE element and
you centered that element in the line, then the roll portion would occur
significantly off center toward the bottom of the line ! </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>This is further supported by the rulebook in 5B.4.3.7. where
it states, "the half roll, snap roll, POINT ROLL, or full roll should
be performed IMMEDIATELY after or before the half loop as required by the
particular maneuver. A VISIBLE LINE IN BETWEEN THE TWO COMPONENTS MUST
DOWNGRADE THE MANEUVER BY 2 POINTS. This action can only occur if the
POINT and the HESITATION are treated as two separate and distinct
elements.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>This error in thinking extended to his proposal that the center of
a 4 point roll was NOT the center of the inverted portion of the roll, but the
beginning of the third point. If you are tempted to agree with this
proposal I would recommend that you draw out the maneuver displaying all
of the individual elements inclucing the entry and exit lines, assigning
similar inch values to each element and you will quickly see that the center is
indeed the center of the inverted portion of the roll.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>All this stuff came from a guy who was a former World Champion and
was agreed to by another top 5 calibre individual who was in attendance at
this small gathering and when I attempted to offer a different viewpoint I
came under a vehement verbal attack.What I had further difficulty with was the
fact that he was able to convince the head of the judging committee that he was
right and the ruling went in his favor to the degree that it was announced at
the pilot's meeting that the maneuver would be flown with the hesitation before
the commencement of the loop. On the first day of competition he himself flew
the maneuver WITHOUT the hesitation. I couldn't help wondering to myself if he
did it all in an effort to sabotage the competition. My other conclusion has
to be, " just because you possess fabulous flying skills (and this guy
really IS fabulous, I thought he won the last round of F ) doesn't mean
you can read English and understand what is being
inferred." As you can tell, I'm sure, .....I'm doing a
little venting here. I'm too easily frustrated. </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>O.K. ...........next item. Half Clover ! A
couple of years before this, the same individual raised some questions
regarding the clover execution. I had been doing this maneuver incorrectly in
my practice sessions and his questions, were valuable to me because they really
made me think ! When I expressed my opinions regarding proper execution
of this maneuver to ANOTHER top flyer I was informed that my basis was
faulty. In subsequent thinking sessions I haven't been able to reverse my
conclusions. My contention is that this is indeed a HALF clover. Why would it
be otherwise? Some individuals in the judging fraternity tell me " You're
getting too caught up in the NAME of the maneuver." Well why did
they give it that name if that's not what it is. </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>O.K., It <u> IS</u> one half of a clover.
Therefore the correct way to perform the figure is to visualize a FULL clover
in your mind and then perform the top two loops relative to those proportions (
if it's upright ). If there's a roll on the upline, then the point of the roll
should occur at a point correspondent with altitudinal point of intersection
between the upper and imaginary lower loops. Now what I had been doing wrong
was to do two loops at the top of a long vertical up-line that were sized way
too small for what a full clover should have looked like, had one been built on
my baseline, and the loops were significantly above the rollpoint. Make 'em
bigger guys and bottom out on the center of the roll and it will score
big. </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>Next: Maneuver end points. Refer to your Aresti drawings and
look for that vertical bar that indicates the correct end-point of questionable
maneuvers. A couple of years ago there was a Reverse Cuban from the top that
could not be completed before center far enough to allow an exit line to be
inserted before the initiation of the subsequent maneuver. Quique asked in
the judging class if he could start the next maneuver before center because it
had it's own problems. After class I checked the Aresti and informed him of the
problem created by the sequence originator not allowing for the correct ending
point of the Cuban. He was grateful for the explanation and I was too as I had
not contemplated the discrepancy before either. All sequence originators need
to be mindful of all maneuver endpoints when trying to achieve a
free -flowing schedule.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>You wont find this one in the book, but it's a pet peeve of mine
and there are a lot of people that feel otherwise. SLOW ROLL
vs. ROLL ! There are multiple descriptors
explaining the correct execution of rolls whether they be normal speed rolls or
slow rolls. Maneuvers requiring slow rolls distinctly specify that the
roll being called for needs to exceed a 3 second duration. THIS IS A VERY
SPECIFIC REQUEST ! In the absense of this request it is my opinion
that a normal speed roll is to be executed and should be required. A
while back we had a Triangle with a roll across the top. It did not say
"ALL ACROSS" the top nor did it say "at the pilot's discretion."
It could be deduced, by the judge, that if you do a slow roll across the top
that you don't want him to see your inability to properly center the normal
speed roll and this is your way of snow-balling him.
Like I say, NOT IN THE BOOK, but I read English ! Sorry.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>One more: Turn Around altitude change. Jim Woodward
will tell you what a stickler I am for BASELINE, BASELINE, BASELINE
!!!!!!!!!!!!! You hear everyone stating the fact that it's O.K. to
enter a T.A. maneuver at one altitude and exit at another without
penalty. Well I don't know how or when this one got so discombobulated.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>Originally the intent of this rule was to accommodate an execution
infraction and was assigned a penalty to be assessed to either the current
maneuver or the subsequent maneuver. For some reason guys started reading
this rule to mean "it's O.K. to change altitude on T.A. maneuvers without
reading the penalty part and with subsequent re-prints of the rule book that
part was dropped. I hate when that happens !!!!!!!!!!!! </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>Despite the sound of all this, I really AM having an O.K. day and
offer it up for your perusal. Just don't over-react please.</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>Remember, I love you guys.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>Georgie</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
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