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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Matt and others with questions on CDI and lower oil content,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>This is a little long but I feel its information that you guys
will appreciate and you should realize where things are in terms of the CDI
system.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>This engine Ed is talking about is a normal YS 170DZ. I
have seen the normal YS 170DZ fail on 15% oil content. Busted Con Rod. That is
why YS recommends 20% oil content.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>There are no CDI engines available to the public.. The CDI
engine is still at least a year off and there is more testing that is
needed. The best and in my opinion the only fuel to run is Cool Power 30% Heli
Performance. The oil package is better than any fuel on the market. I use only
this fuel and have had extremely impressive results with this fuel and this
fuel alone for the past 5-6 years. Other that seem to have problems are bound
and determined to run other fuels that they “know are better” This is
not an advertisement for Morgan Fuels. It’s a fact of life and my
experience with engines that others have tried XYZ fuel in. Richard and the YS
crew have seen the same results. Morgan has the magic fuel that is very good on
these engines. It’s the oil package 100% proof positive. I have 160DZ’s
with over 1000runs that have had bearings and rings replaced and that is all.
There is a reason we run that fuel. It flat works better than any other on the
market. When a guy has a problem with his engine and you ask what fuel he is
running 90% of the time he is not running the good stuff. I know I spend hrs
every week answering emails, phone calls and helping guys work on their engines
even repairing some of them myself.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The CDI engines do have some new parts in order to allow low oil
content. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The low oil content on a non CDI engine that still has the new
parts for low oil makes the engine difficult to tune. The low oil richens the
mixture in effect. So with the CDI you can lean the pump and HS way down
in order to accommodate the low oil content. On a glow plug you can never
lean out the middle without detonating and it’s still way too rich at
idle.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Like I have repeated many times. The CDI system that is being
used is in its infant stages at the moment. One thing that we are finding is
while the mixture is easier to set without having a lean blown up condition
from detonation as there is no detonation. On the other hand it’s tough
to get the mixture just right in the sweet spot. It seems as the oil content is
reduced to where I am running it now (5% oil) the HS needle can get a little
touchy in hot weather. One click either way can mean too lean or too rich. This
is likely because the HS needle is closed down a bunch and is only open 5/8
turns.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Remember this is testing stuff. This information is being
passed along to the make the products better and improve performance.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>You can’t take the idea of just put it on a spark
plug and then use the same old parts with a new oil content. Yes Spark ignition
allows you to change some things…but you will get into future issues and
changes that are being tested out now. There is a big difference in the way you
tune the two engines. Glow has its methods and Spark acts a little differently.
You have to realize that the people that are currently running the setup went
through some growing pains on figuring it out. We shared this info with each
other as we learned the tricks. This made others that got the new setup right
before the NATS like Brett and Don Sczur successful with it at the NATS.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Quique’s #1 engine had a failure of the spark plug cap.
This was a mechanical part the spark plug wire that broke. There is a new
spark plug cap on that ignition box and I have flown that exact ignition box
since. His #2 engine might just have been a case of not getting the
mixture set properly. I usually get it where I think it needs to be and then
fly it. In that first flight I will tweak the mixture after I land. There have
been more than a few times I have taken off so rich that it won’t work
and keeps cooling off and off until the motor is not making any power at all.
Land and lean it down 2 clicks and its perfect. I thought it was perfect from
the tach readings and my “expert” ear. However it was not.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>So I must repeat the standard 170DZ is just like any other YS DZ
engine and should be run accordingly. There are special parts that make it CDI
and then there are even more additional parts that make it LOW oil content CDI.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>When the CDI system is released it is likely that it will have the
low oil parts associated with it. To answer your question. No there are not
needle bearings on the connecting rod. However the crank, rod, lifters, other
parts are different than a standard DZ engine to accommodate the low oil
content. I know the parts I converted one of my engines from Stock out of the
box production engine from Central Hobbies to CDI back in January. Then I converted
that same engine to Low oil capability. I have flown that engine since about
May this way. First on normal 30% Cool Power Heli performance Blend…and
now on a Cool Power 30% nitro/ 5% oil blend.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The normal fuel is fine with the low oil parts. This means that
YS could start including low oil parts in production engines before the CDI is
released in order to make a easier change over to CDI with low oil later on.
I have no information about this plan that I can share.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>This setup is very cool and works tremendously well. I
will not be flying glow plugs anytime soon for sure. There is also work to be
done on the program inside the little magic box. Just an electronic ignition
like off a DA 50 is not what we are working with. I personally have had 2
different ignition boxes that have different advance curves in them. If you
know the engine you can tell the difference. There is still plenty of testing
to be done. Yes this is exciting technology and its moving forward very fast at
the moment. There is a reason they call it testing. I would suspect late next
year at the very soonest to have CDI parts available.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>We need to run the engines on this low oil for a long time in
order to find out what the results are. I have been running this new fuel 5%
oil content since about May. I have not had issues. Some others have gone up to
a 10-12% oil content as they felt the engine worked better for them. Others
that are doing the testing on the new engines are just playing follow the
leader as we have been sharing information. Right before the NATS it was a mad
dash to make sure we all knew what was going on. By next NATS there will be
more testing and guys that were playing follow the setup that works will have
tested other setups. Who knows maybe the 10-12% oil is going to be the ticket
in the end Right now I have about 8 cases of 30% 5% oil though two engines.
Even in 100deg AZ temps and its performance has been good. I had some little
issues in June and struggled with it. Those problems were traced down and the
solution proved to be correct. Now it’s testing testing testing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I know for a fact that a normal on glow plug 170DZ will fail on
15% oil in a few flights. I witnessed it and others experienced the same thing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I hope this helps answer some questions about the system. It’s
just going to take lots of flights and a few worn out engines to find out the
weak links in the system.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Troy Newman<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Team YS<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>rcmaster199@aol.com<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 25, 2008 10:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org; adriancwong@earthlink.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS newbie questions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Are you guys seeing that it really needs that much oil? The
ignition timing is in a can on this engine and you don't need to use mixture as
your timing mechanism. Is the con-rod still bushed or has YS switched to needle
bearings?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I suppose the amount of oil in heli fuel won't really hurt
anything but why would one not use, say, 12% oil? It should allow better
gas mileage but not at the expense of bushings breaking down/seezing<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Eddie were you quoted a price? I'm thinking about this one
too<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>MattK<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Ed Alt <ed_alt@hotmail.com><br>
To: adriancwong@earthlink.net; General pattern discussion
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 11:26 am<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS newbie questions<o:p></o:p></p>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_0_13f9e423-9e37-45d8-b23b-8f957188e716">
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Thanks to all who responded,
very helpful. <br>
<br>
Ed <br>
----- Original Message ----- From: <<a
href="mailto:adriancwong@earthlink.net">adriancwong@earthlink.net</a>> <br>
To: "General pattern discussion" <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> <br>
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 2:09 AM <br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS newbie questions <br>
<br>
> Ed, <br>
> <br>
>>Exhaust: I guess you buy the Hatori 821 and call it a day? Any special
>>mounting tips? <br>
> <br>
> Most likely you will be couple the 821 pipe with either the 822 or 823
> header - different rise height. Suggest using a Nishioka quick release
> pipe mount instead of the pipe mount that came with the pipe. The Nishioka
> came in three different heights - 20, 29 and 37 mm rise. Again, it all
> depends on which header that you're using. <br>
> <br>
> <br>
>>Engine mount: I've heard a little bit about an isolation mount that YS
>>makes, but it's pricey. What, if anything does this buy you as compared
>>to a Hyde / Budd mount solution? <br>
> <br>
> Budd mount is good, but I've found it a bit on the noisy side. Also, I
> wish Jerry will switch from 4-40 to 6-32 on the mounting bolts. So far,
> I've found the YS mount the best - between idling and full throttle. Less
> noise and less vibration. <br>
> <br>
> <br>
>>Fuel: What's the real deal with the oil? Not the percentage, because I
>>know that's being experimented with, but what oil does this engine
require >>in the fuel? <br>
> <br>
> Recommend using either Coolpower 30% heli, or 30% with low smoke - all
> synthetic, don't use anything with caster oil. I preferred the regular 30%
> heli than the low smoke. <br>
> <br>
>> <br>
>>Maintenance: I'ev heard that prior to the first run, you need to take
the >>head cover off and oil up the lifters. True? What kind of oil, how
much >>etc? What about after run? None needed? What other maintenance
tips are >>there to keep this beast going? <br>
> <br>
> YS shipped all engines with no gap on the valves. However, I always open
> it slightly before the first start. Also, take off the valve cover and wet
> sand the contact surface on a smooth surface with very fine sand paper. By
> doing that, you will eliminate any uneven high spot on the valve cover,
> causing the engine to surge due to air leaks. <br>
> <br>
> Open up the cam cover and drop a few drops of oil inside to lube the the
> cam. <br>
> <br>
> Use either YS or OS F plug <br>
> <br>
> No after run oil is necessary. After you finish flying, no need to run out
> the excess fuel, unless you're planning not to fly for over a year. <br>
> <br>
> <br>
>>Break In: What prop? Lower the nitro? Follow the instructions or is
>>there a better way? <br>
> <br>
> Just use a slightly smaller diameter prop for break-in, and you can use
> the same nitro, just run it rich for the first 4 - 5 tanks and gradually
> lean it. I used a 16.5x13w for break-in, fly it for 5 - 6 flights on >
17x12w. Currently, I'm experimenting between 17.7x11.7 and 18x11 WPN >
re-pitched to 18x12. RPM between 7,600 to 7,800 <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On first start of the day, do not use a starter to prime the engine - >
since when you turn the prop, pump will feed fuel into engine. Just turn >
over the prop 4 - 5 times, then, rock the spinner cone back and forth 4 - >
5 times to activate the pump, it's ready to start. You do not need to >
prime the engine again after the first flight. <br>
> <br>
> Preferably, use a time delay glow driver - to prevent knocking/ kick back.
> Do not take the starter away as soon as the engine stated, let it spin for
> an additional 2 - 3 seconds to ensure the engine is indeed started to >
prevent abrupt stop. <br>
> <br>
> The 170 is pretty much bullet proof, the last one I sent back for service
> have had over 500 flights. It only needed front and rear bearing and >
piston ring. <br>
> <br>
> If you have other question, feel free to contact me. <br>
> <br>
> Adrian <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________ <br>
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> <br>
> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a> <br>
> <br>
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