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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ed or Jim O.,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am running dual 1500 mil 6v NiMh packs in my
Ultimate. I am using 2 of the 6v regulated Miracle switches by MPI. I find
that one pack is consistently lower after two or three flights. Could it
be that the regulators are not matched and one draws more then the other one?
Could be a bad battery I'll have to remove and test. They seem to use about the
same amount of mil amps but one is lower in voltage then the other. I use
a 1amp load when testing after each flight and stop flying when the voltage
drops to 5.8v loaded.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wayne</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ed_alt@hotmail.com href="mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com">Ed Alt</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 04, 2008 5:32
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Part
2-Its a miracle!!!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Keith:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>That setup works well. I refer to it as a
hot standby, with details covered in a tech tip on the Tech-Aero
website. I prefer a different approach, where you just split the battery
capacity equally between two packs, each with its own regulator. The
regulators must be precisely matched in output voltage setting to allow then
to both actively share the load simultaneously. You can make a very
light setup with this and there are several advantages to it. First, you can
check every flight to see that each battery is being used as expected, which
is very important to know. Second, you double your peak load capacity under
load. A single 5A regulator such as the JAICCIO or the Tech-Aero can
handle the load in a pattern airplane just fine, but it's also good to know
that you can have two 5A regulators online at once, providing a 10A peak
current capability.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The Tech-Tip on how this all works is at <A
href="http://www.tech-aero.net/Tech-Tips.htm">http://www.tech-aero.net/Tech-Tips.htm</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ed</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=tkeithblack@gmail.com href="mailto:tkeithblack@gmail.com">Keith
Black</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 03, 2008
10:33 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Part
2-Its a miracle!!!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>What I've done is have two batteries and two
regulators, one regulator at 5.7 volts and one at 5.3 volts (or any voltage
lower). On the higher voltage regulator I connect my primary battery, say a
2000 mah five cell or Lithium. On the lower voltage regulator I
connect the smallest battery I can buy, say a 750 Lipo
that weighs less than an ounce. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Since the larger battery is hooked to
a regulator that outputs a higher voltage all drain comes from the
primary battery and nothing is sucked from the smaller battery unless the
main battery drops below 5.3 volts (or fails). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This works great and when recharging the
smaller battery seldom needs any recharge at all.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I spoke to Jim Oddino before doing this and
confirmed that the lower voltage battery would not suck voltage from the
larger battery since it was going through his regulator (Jaccio
regulator).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This setup has worked great for me and even
saved a plane when my primary battery came loose and disconnected
once!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Keith Black</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vicenterc@comcast.net
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> ; <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern
discussion'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 03, 2008
11:23 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Part
2-Its a miracle!!!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Correct, I still use separate regulators for each
battery. This system is smart that isolates the bad battery if
something goes wrong. In this way, the bad battery won't drain
the good one. The LED in the receiver tells you if the battery has
been isolated. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>Vicente "Vince" Bortone</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Jay Marshall" <<A
href="mailto:lightfoot@sc.rr.com">lightfoot@sc.rr.com</A>> <BR>
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<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">As I read the
literature, the dual battery setup is designed to provide a heavier buss
for more current. It does not solve the problem of a failed battery(s).
This could effectively add even more drain. The ideal setup still seems
to be dual battery packs with dual regulators, or some other means to
isolate a failed pack.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<P><B><I><FONT face="Brush Script MT" color=navy size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: 'Brush Script MT'">Jay
</SPAN></FONT></I></B><B><I><FONT face="Brush Script MT" color=navy
size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: 'Brush Script MT'">Marshall</SPAN></FONT></I></B><FONT
color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"> </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
[mailto:</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">]
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of
</SPAN></B>vicenterc@comcast.net<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, September 03, 2008
11:44 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">General pattern d iscuss
ion</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Part 2-Its a miracle!!!</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Gray,</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Yes, high
drain could have been the problem. Since the plane is in good
condition probably you can check. I think you should consider
using two batteries of your preference. I starting to use the 9100
receiver that already has two power inputs. Check details
here:</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><A
href="http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=SPMAR9100">http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=SPMAR9100</A></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV id=signature>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">--<BR>Vicente "Vince"
Bortone</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">-------------- Original message --------------
<BR>From: Gray E Fowler <gfowler@raytheon.com>
<BR><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">Vicente</SPAN></FONT>
<BR><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">The Robbe charger has
a setting for soft peak, which is to be used for NiMH. This is what I
had. I cycled twice before using this new battery..what I remember was
getting about 1300 Mah from this 1450 mah pack. I think there may be a
"high drain" problem on the plane in addition.</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif"><BR><BR><BR>Gray
Fowler<BR>Senior Principal Chemical Engineer<BR>Radomes and Specialty
Apertures<BR>Technical Staff Composites Engineer
ing<BR>Raytheon</SPAN></FONT> <BR><BR></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">vicenterc@comcast.net</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=sans-serif size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">
</SPAN></FONT><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">Sent by:
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">09/03/2008
09:42 AM</SPAN></FONT> </P>
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align=center><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">Please
respond to<BR>General pattern discussion
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></SPAN></FONT></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">General
pattern discussion
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></SPAN></FONT>
</P></TD></TR>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Part 2-Its a
miracle!!!</SPAN></FONT></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
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face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR><BR>Gray, <BR> <BR>Yes, that is
good news. Clearly the battery was the problem. I had
heard that some chargers get a "false peak" and stop charging when the
battery is not really fully charged. I wonder if this was the
problem. <BR> <BR>--<BR>Vicente "Vince" Bortone <BR>
<BR>-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: Gray E
Fowler <gfowler@raytheon.com> <BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif"><BR>Lance and I went
out and found the plane right where it was supposed to be. Do not know
how I missed it the first day, so I am going to say that someone went
into the woods Monday night and moved it .</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif"><BR>What is
amazing in the minimal damage the plane has considering it went straig
ht in from 200 feet, albeit at a slow speed. The horrible reverbed
cracking sound Keith and I heard was the carbon fiber wing tube
breaking. Both wings have limited leading edge damage, the stab has a
golfball size divot on the R LE, an easy to repair crack in the fuse
(buckle failure) behind one wing and a little nose ring area damage.
That is all.</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif"><BR>The battery pack
had broken the 3/8 bals a stic ks on impact that were bonded into
place (my battery packs are not "removeable" per say) and the battey
pack was on the ground at the nose of the plane. The plane was
standing vertical on the undamage spinner being held up by the
tree branches. Once we got home we hooked eveything up and of
course it all worked fine. Knowing that the battery pack essentially
had the same charge as when the plane went in, Lance took the battery
pack home for diagnostics. Using the Robbe charger he cycled
the1450 mah &nbs p;pack down....it read 80 mah. He then charged it
and it read 1000 mah. Anthony described a NiMH "brown out" and that is
starting to make alot of sense. 6 volt packNiMH , drained does
not just die like a 4.8 volt NiCad. Also an important note is I now
think the plane was going in and out of PCM lock. When I tested PCM
lock the throttle did cut, but not to low idle. It cut to about 20%
throttle (programming error), hence the pulsing of the throttle that I
exper ienced. If this diagnosis is correct then it is a testament to
using PCM as I was able to fly the plane for 45 seconds before
impact...had I been closer when the problem started I may have even
been able to score a "10" FAI landing (not really-I would have gone
for the grass instead of the runway).</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif"><B R>Anyw ay I am
sending the entire radio off for examination, try to see why the
battery was so low, and fix the plane for spring.</SPAN></FONT>
<BR><BR><FO size="2" NT fac e="sans-serif">Thanks for the ideas
<BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif"><BR></SPAN></FONT><BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif"><BR><BR><BR><BR>Gray
Fowler<BR>Senior Principal Chemical Engineer<BR>Radomes and Specialty
Apertures<BR>Technical Staff Composites
Engineering<BR>Raytheon</SPAN></FONT> <TT><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">_______________________________________________</SPAN></FONT></TT><FONT
face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><BR><TT><FONT
face="Courier New">NSRCA-discussion mailing
list</FONT></TT><BR><TT><FONT
face="Courier New">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</FONT></TT><BR><TT><FONT
face="Courier New">http://lists.nsrca.o rg/mai
lman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</FONT></TT></SPAN></FONT>
<BR><BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
<HR>
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