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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>So is this the case? One battery is only
being used (if the regulator is not matched) until there is sufficient voltage
drop then the other regulator allows current draw. I could switch the
batteries and see if the reverse happens.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wayne</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ed_alt@hotmail.com href="mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com">Ed Alt</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 04, 2008 10:22
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Part
2-Its a miracle!!!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wayne:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The regulators not being matched is the cause,
and it's the reason I began producing Tech-Aero regulators in the first
place. There was nothing on the market that you could consistently match
output voltages precisely enough in order to balance the current draw from
separate packs.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ed</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=wgalligan@att.net href="mailto:wgalligan@att.net">Wayne
Galligan</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:08
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Part
2-Its a miracle!!!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ed or Jim O.,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am running dual 1500 mil 6v NiMh packs
in my Ultimate. I am using 2 of the 6v regulated Miracle switches by
MPI. I find that one pack is consistently lower after two or three
flights. Could it be that the regulators are not matched and one draws
more then the other one? Could be a bad battery I'll have to remove and
test. They seem to use about the same amount of mil amps but one is lower in
voltage then the other. I use a 1amp load when testing after each
flight and stop flying when the voltage drops to 5.8v loaded.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wayne</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ed_alt@hotmail.com href="mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com">Ed Alt</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 04, 2008
5:32 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Part
2-Its a miracle!!!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Keith:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>That setup works well. I refer to it as
a hot standby, with details covered in a tech tip on the Tech-Aero
website. I prefer a different approach, where you just split the
battery capacity equally between two packs, each with its own regulator.
The regulators must be precisely matched in output voltage setting to
allow then to both actively share the load simultaneously. You can
make a very light setup with this and there are several advantages to it.
First, you can check every flight to see that each battery is being used
as expected, which is very important to know. Second, you double your peak
load capacity under load. A single 5A regulator such as the JAICCIO
or the Tech-Aero can handle the load in a pattern airplane just fine, but
it's also good to know that you can have two 5A regulators online at once,
providing a 10A peak current capability.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The Tech-Tip on how this all works is at <A
href="http://www.tech-aero.net/Tech-Tips.htm">http://www.tech-aero.net/Tech-Tips.htm</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ed</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=tkeithblack@gmail.com href="mailto:tkeithblack@gmail.com">Keith
Black</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 03, 2008
10:33 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Part 2-Its a miracle!!!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>What I've done is have two batteries and
two regulators, one regulator at 5.7 volts and one at 5.3 volts (or any
voltage lower). On the higher voltage regulator I connect my primary
battery, say a 2000 mah five cell or Lithium. On the lower voltage
regulator I connect the smallest battery I can buy, say a
750 Lipo that weighs less than an ounce. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Since the larger battery is
hooked to a regulator that outputs a higher voltage all drain comes
from the primary battery and nothing is sucked from the smaller battery
unless the main battery drops below 5.3 volts (or fails).
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This works great and when recharging the
smaller battery seldom needs any recharge at all.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I spoke to Jim Oddino before doing this and
confirmed that the lower voltage battery would not suck voltage from the
larger battery since it was going through his regulator (Jaccio
regulator).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This setup has worked great for me and even
saved a plane when my primary battery came loose and disconnected
once!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Keith Black</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vicenterc@comcast.net
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> ; <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern
discussion'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 03,
2008 11:23 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Part 2-Its a miracle!!!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Correct, I still use separate regulators for each
battery. This system is smart that isolates the bad battery if
something goes wrong. In this way, the bad battery won't
drain the good one. The LED in the receiver tells you if the
battery has been isolated. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>Vicente "Vince" Bortone</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Jay Marshall" <<A
href="mailto:lightfoot@sc.rr.com">lightfoot@sc.rr.com</A>> <BR>
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<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">As I read
the literature, the dual battery setup is designed to provide a
heavier buss for more current. It does not solve the problem of a
failed battery(s). This could effectively add even more drain. The
ideal setup still seems to be dual battery packs with dual
regulators, or some other means to isolate a failed
pack.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<P><B><I><FONT face="Brush Script MT" color=navy size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: 'Brush Script MT'">Jay
</SPAN></FONT></I></B><B><I><FONT face="Brush Script MT" color=navy
size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: 'Brush Script MT'">Marshall</SPAN></FONT></I></B><FONT
color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"> </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
[mailto:</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of
</SPAN></B>vicenterc@comcast.net<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, September 03,
2008 11:44 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">General pattern d
iscuss ion</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Part 2-Its a miracle!!!</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Gray,</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Yes,
high drain could have been the problem. Since the plane is in
good condition probably you can check. I think you should
consider using two batteries of your preference. I starting to
use the 9100 receiver that already has two power inputs. Check
details here:</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><A
href="http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=SPMAR9100">http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=SPMAR9100</A></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV id=signature>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">--<BR>Vicente "Vince"
Bortone</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">-------------- Original message
-------------- <BR>From: Gray E Fowler
<gfowler@raytheon.com> <BR><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">Vicente</SPAN></FONT>
<BR><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">The Robbe charger
has a setting for soft peak, which is to be used for NiMH. This is
what I had. I cycled twice before using this new battery..what I
remember was getting about 1300 Mah from this 1450 mah pack. I
think there may be a "high drain" problem on the plane in
addition.</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif"><BR><BR><BR>Gray
Fowler<BR>Senior Principal Chemical Engineer<BR>Radomes and
Specialty Apertures<BR>Technical Staff Composites Engineer
ing<BR>Raytheon</SPAN></FONT> <BR><BR></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">vicenterc@comcast.net</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
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</SPAN></FONT><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">Sent by:
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">09/03/2008
09:42 AM</SPAN></FONT> </P>
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<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></SPAN></FONT></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></SPAN></FONT>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Part 2-Its a
miracle!!!</SPAN></FONT></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR><BR>Gray, <BR> <BR>Yes, that
is good news. Clearly the battery was the problem. I
had heard that some chargers get a "false peak" and stop charging
when the battery is not really fully charged. I wonder if
this was the problem. <BR> <BR>--<BR>Vicente "Vince" Bortone
<BR> <BR>-------------- Original message --------------
<BR>From: Gray E Fowler <gfowler@raytheon.com>
<BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif"><BR>Lance and I
went out and found the plane right where it was supposed to be. Do
not know how I missed it the first day, so I am going to say that
someone went into the woods Monday night and moved it
.</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif"><BR>What
is amazing in the minimal damage the plane has considering it went
straig ht in from 200 feet, albeit at a slow speed. The horrible
reverbed cracking sound Keith and I heard was the carbon fiber
wing tube breaking. Both wings have limited leading edge damage,
the stab has a golfball size divot on the R LE, an easy to repair
crack in the fuse (buckle failure) behind one wing and a little
nose ring area damage. That is all.</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif"><BR>The battery
pack had broken the 3/8 bals a stic ks on impact that were bonded
into place (my battery packs are not "removeable" per say) and the
battey pack was on the ground at the nose of the plane. The plane
was standing vertical on the undamage spinner being held up
by the tree branches. Once we got home we hooked eveything
up and of course it all worked fine. Knowing that the battery pack
essentially had the same charge as when the plane went in, Lance
took the battery pack home for diagnostics. Using the Robbe
charger he cycled the1450 mah &nbs p;pack down....it read 80
mah. He then charged it and it read 1000 mah. Anthony described a
NiMH "brown out" and that is starting to make alot of sense.
6 volt packNiMH , drained does not just die like a 4.8 volt
NiCad. Also an important note is I now think the plane was going
in and out of PCM lock. When I tested PCM lock the throttle did
cut, but not to low idle. It cut to about 20% throttle
(programming error), hence the pulsing of the throttle that I
exper ienced. If this diagnosis is correct then it is a testament
to using PCM as I was able to fly the plane for 45 seconds before
impact...had I been closer when the problem started I may have
even been able to score a "10" FAI landing (not really-I would
have gone for the grass instead of the runway).</SPAN></FONT>
<BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif"><B R>Anyw ay I am
sending the entire radio off for examination, try to see why the
battery was so low, and fix the plane for spring.</SPAN></FONT>
<BR><BR><FO size="2" NT fac e="sans-serif">Thanks for the ideas
<BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif"><BR></SPAN></FONT><BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif"><BR><BR><BR><BR>Gray
Fowler<BR>Senior Principal Chemical Engineer<BR>Radomes and
Specialty Apertures<BR>Technical Staff Composites
Engineering<BR>Raytheon</SPAN></FONT> <TT><FONT face="Courier New"
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">_______________________________________________</SPAN></FONT></TT><FONT
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