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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wayne:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>That's it. Try the test, I think you'll see that
the draw stays with one regulator.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ed</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=wgalligan@att.net href="mailto:wgalligan@att.net">Wayne Galligan</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 04, 2008 10:54
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Part
2-Its a miracle!!!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>So is this the case? One battery is only
being used (if the regulator is not matched) until there is sufficient voltage
drop then the other regulator allows current draw. I could switch the
batteries and see if the reverse happens.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wayne</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ed_alt@hotmail.com href="mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com">Ed Alt</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 04, 2008
10:22 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Part
2-Its a miracle!!!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wayne:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The regulators not being matched is the cause,
and it's the reason I began producing Tech-Aero regulators in the first
place. There was nothing on the market that you could consistently
match output voltages precisely enough in order to balance the current draw
from separate packs.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ed</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=wgalligan@att.net href="mailto:wgalligan@att.net">Wayne
Galligan</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 04, 2008
9:08 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Part
2-Its a miracle!!!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ed or Jim O.,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am running dual 1500 mil 6v NiMh packs
in my Ultimate. I am using 2 of the 6v regulated Miracle switches by
MPI. I find that one pack is consistently lower after two or three
flights. Could it be that the regulators are not matched and one
draws more then the other one? Could be a bad battery I'll have to remove
and test. They seem to use about the same amount of mil amps but one is
lower in voltage then the other. I use a 1amp load when testing
after each flight and stop flying when the voltage drops to 5.8v
loaded.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wayne</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ed_alt@hotmail.com href="mailto:ed_alt@hotmail.com">Ed Alt</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 04, 2008
5:32 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Part 2-Its a miracle!!!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Keith:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>That setup works well. I refer to it
as a hot standby, with details covered in a tech tip on the Tech-Aero
website. I prefer a different approach, where you just split the
battery capacity equally between two packs, each with its own regulator.
The regulators must be precisely matched in output voltage setting to
allow then to both actively share the load simultaneously. You can
make a very light setup with this and there are several advantages to
it. First, you can check every flight to see that each battery is being
used as expected, which is very important to know. Second, you double
your peak load capacity under load. A single 5A regulator such as
the JAICCIO or the Tech-Aero can handle the load in a pattern airplane
just fine, but it's also good to know that you can have two 5A
regulators online at once, providing a 10A peak current
capability.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The Tech-Tip on how this all works is at <A
href="http://www.tech-aero.net/Tech-Tips.htm">http://www.tech-aero.net/Tech-Tips.htm</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ed</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=tkeithblack@gmail.com
href="mailto:tkeithblack@gmail.com">Keith Black</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 03,
2008 10:33 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Part 2-Its a miracle!!!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>What I've done is have two batteries and
two regulators, one regulator at 5.7 volts and one at 5.3 volts (or
any voltage lower). On the higher voltage regulator I connect my
primary battery, say a 2000 mah five cell or Lithium. On the
lower voltage regulator I connect the smallest battery I can
buy, say a 750 Lipo that weighs less than an ounce.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Since the larger battery is
hooked to a regulator that outputs a higher voltage all drain
comes from the primary battery and nothing is sucked from the smaller
battery unless the main battery drops below 5.3 volts (or fails).
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This works great and when recharging the
smaller battery seldom needs any recharge at all.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I spoke to Jim Oddino before doing this
and confirmed that the lower voltage battery would not suck voltage
from the larger battery since it was going through his regulator
(Jaccio regulator).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This setup has worked great for me and
even saved a plane when my primary battery came loose and disconnected
once!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Keith Black</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vicenterc@comcast.net
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> ; <A title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern
discussion'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 03,
2008 11:23 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Part 2-Its a miracle!!!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Correct, I still use separate regulators for each
battery. This system is smart that isolates the bad battery if
something goes wrong. In this way, the bad battery won't
drain the good one. The LED in the receiver tells you if the
battery has been isolated. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>Vicente "Vince"
Bortone</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Jay Marshall" <<A
href="mailto:lightfoot@sc.rr.com">lightfoot@sc.rr.com</A>> <BR>
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<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">As I read
the literature, the dual battery setup is designed to provide a
heavier buss for more current. It does not solve the problem of a
failed battery(s). This could effectively add even more drain. The
ideal setup still seems to be dual battery packs with dual
regulators, or some other means to isolate a failed
pack.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<P><B><I><FONT face="Brush Script MT" color=navy size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: 'Brush Script MT'">Jay
</SPAN></FONT></I></B><B><I><FONT face="Brush Script MT"
color=navy size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: 'Brush Script MT'">Marshall</SPAN></FONT></I></B><FONT
color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"> </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
[mailto:</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of
</SPAN></B>vicenterc@comcast.net<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, September
03, 2008 11:44 AM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">General pattern d
iscuss ion</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Part 2-Its a miracle!!!</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Gray,</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Yes,
high drain could have been the problem. Since the plane is
in good condition probably you can check. I think you should
consider using two batteries of your preference. I starting
to use the 9100 receiver that already has two power inputs.
Check details here:</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><A
href="http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=SPMAR9100">http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=SPMAR9100</A></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
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face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
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face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV id=signature>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">--<BR>Vicente "Vince"
Bortone</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
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face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">-------------- Original message
-------------- <BR>From: Gray E Fowler
<gfowler@raytheon.com> <BR><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">Vicente</SPAN></FONT>
<BR><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">The Robbe
charger has a setting for soft peak, which is to be used for
NiMH. This is what I had. I cycled twice before using this new
battery..what I remember was getting about 1300 Mah from this
1450 mah pack. I think there may be a "high drain" problem on
the plane in addition.</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif"><BR><BR><BR>Gray
Fowler<BR>Senior Principal Chemical Engineer<BR>Radomes and
Specialty Apertures<BR>Technical Staff Composites Engineer
ing<BR>Raytheon</SPAN></FONT> <BR><BR></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">vicenterc@comcast.net</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
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</SPAN></FONT><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><SPAN
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<P><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">09/03/2008
09:42 AM</SPAN></FONT> </P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=sans-serif
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style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Part 2-Its a
miracle!!!</SPAN></FONT></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR><BR>Gray, <BR> <BR>Yes,
that is good news. Clearly the battery was the problem.
I had heard that some chargers get a "false peak" and stop
charging when the battery is not really fully charged. I
wonder if this was the problem. <BR> <BR>--<BR>Vicente
"Vince" Bortone <BR> <BR>-------------- Original message
-------------- <BR>From: Gray E Fowler
<gfowler@raytheon.com> <BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif"><BR>Lance and I
went out and found the plane right where it was supposed to be.
Do not know how I missed it the first day, so I am going to say
that someone went into the woods Monday night and moved it
.</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif"><BR>What
is amazing in the minimal damage the plane has considering it
went straig ht in from 200 feet, albeit at a slow speed. The
horrible reverbed cracking sound Keith and I heard was the
carbon fiber wing tube breaking. Both wings have limited leading
edge damage, the stab has a golfball size divot on the R LE, an
easy to repair crack in the fuse (buckle failure) behind one
wing and a little nose ring area damage. That is
all.</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif"><BR>The battery
pack had broken the 3/8 bals a stic ks on impact that were
bonded into place (my battery packs are not "removeable" per
say) and the battey pack was on the ground at the nose of the
plane. The plane was standing vertical on the undamage
spinner being held up by the tree branches. Once we got
home we hooked eveything up and of course it all worked fine.
Knowing that the battery pack essentially had the same charge as
when the plane went in, Lance took the battery pack home for
diagnostics. Using the Robbe charger he cycled the1450 mah
&nbs p;pack down....it read 80 mah. He then charged it and
it read 1000 mah. Anthony described a NiMH "brown out" and that
is starting to make alot of sense. 6 volt packNiMH ,
drained does not just die like a 4.8 volt NiCad. Also an
important note is I now think the plane was going in and out of
PCM lock. When I tested PCM lock the throttle did cut, but not
to low idle. It cut to about 20% throttle (programming error),
hence the pulsing of the throttle that I exper ienced. If this
diagnosis is correct then it is a testament to using PCM as I
was able to fly the plane for 45 seconds before impact...had I
been closer when the problem started I may have even been able
to score a "10" FAI landing (not really-I would have gone for
the grass instead of the runway).</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif"><B R>Anyw ay I
am sending the entire radio off for examination, try to see why
the battery was so low, and fix the plane for
spring.</SPAN></FONT> <BR><BR><FO size="2" e="sans-serif" fac
NT>Thanks for the ideas <BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif"><BR></SPAN></FONT><BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif"><BR><BR><BR><BR>Gray
Fowler<BR>Senior Principal Chemical Engineer<BR>Radomes and
Specialty Apertures<BR>Technical Staff Composites
Engineering<BR>Raytheon</SPAN></FONT> <TT><FONT
face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">_______________________________________________</SPAN></FONT></TT><FONT
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