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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Jay</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Agree Peltiers aren't applicable to the airplane system -
I've one of the 12v mini-fridge / heaters for vehicle use. The thing gets to hot
for battery heating and too cold for cooling - there's no set point adjustments,
but I suspicion lowering the input voltage might serve that function. OTOH - the
thing may have an internal regulator whose output would need to be varied.
Hadn't really thought about the thing until you mentioned them.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>As to heating / cooling batts in a pattern plane, it kinda
depends on the batt and ambient. In some situations heating before flight is
needed, in others airflow management to effect max heat transfer is needed (as
with George - plenty hot in TX). Certainly an efficient thermal conductor
is a better mount material than an insulator, as the part of the batt on the
mount isn't experiencing the effects of airflow. So - the mount might as well
have fins on it - understand heat flow / contact issues - I'm just
looking for heat sinks that are light enough to offer some
advantage over sheet aluminum.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Earl</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=lightfoot@sc.rr.com href="mailto:lightfoot@sc.rr.com">Jay
Marshall</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern
discussion'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 01, 2008 2:43
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Heat
Sinks</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Earl, it has been
several years since I “played” with these devices to cool electronic
components. As I remember the cooling power is proportional to the input
power. They still require a heat sink. See <A
href="http://www.overclockers.com/tips45/">http://www.overclockers.com/tips45/</A>
for some discussion on cooling CPUs.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">IMHO, because of the
power requirements, extra weight, and heat sink requirements they would be
totally unsuitable for a pattern plane. The idea of a real heat sink, maybe
with the fins as part of the skin of the plane and in the airstream, and the
LiPo cell edges bonded to the sink with thermal compound, has some merit and
may require some investigation – if cooling is what we really
want.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<P><B><I><FONT face="Brush Script MT" color=navy size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: 'Brush Script MT'">Jay
Marshall</SPAN></FONT></I></B><FONT color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy">
</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Earl Haury<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, August 01, 2008 3:21
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> General pattern
discussion<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Heat Sinks</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jay</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Is it possible to change the "set
point" of these units by varying the input voltage?</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Earl</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- Original Message -----
</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV style="font-color: black">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=lightfoot@sc.rr.com href="mailto:lightfoot@sc.rr.com">Jay Marshall</A>
</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face=Arial
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
title=jpavlick@idseng.com
href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com">jpavlick@idseng.com</A> ; <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">'General pattern
discussion'</A> </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face=Arial
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Friday,
August 01, 2008 2:04 PM</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face=Arial
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Heat Sinks</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Peltiers are the units used in your car
to provide a hot/cold portable food container.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><I><FONT face="Brush Script MT" color=navy
size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: 'Brush Script MT'">Jay
Marshall</SPAN></FONT></I></B><FONT color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy">
</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>John Pavlick<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, August 01, 2008 11:44
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Heat
Sinks</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Yup that's one application though not
the most effective use. You wouldn't want to dissipate a lot of energy
like what this guy was trying to do. The neat thing about Peltiers is they
can heat and cool depending on which direction the current flows. In other
words, they can be used to control the temperature (up or down) and they're
solid state so there are no moving parts. </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Of course they require power to operate
and it probably wouldn't be practical to use the batteries themselves as the
source since you guys need every last drop of energy in them to run the
motor. </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Just something to think about. Kinda
like a profile Pattern plane. LOL</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">John Pavlick</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR><B><I><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-STYLE: italic">JEREMY CHINN
<lagrue@hotmail.com></SPAN></I></B> wrote: </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">With much the
same question in mind, I found this with Google.....<BR> <BR><A
href="http://www.dansdata.com/peltprac.htm">http://www.dansdata.com/peltprac.htm</A><BR> <BR><BR><BR>>
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 09:24:56 -0500<BR>> From:
glmiller3@suddenlink.net<BR>> To: jpavlick@idseng.com;
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Heat Sinks<BR>> <BR>> What the heck are Peltiers? Flying in LA I never
have to worry about batteries being too COOL!<BR>> <BR>> I'm always
looking for a way to improve heat exchange, though. <BR>> <BR>>
G<BR>> ---- John Pavlick <jpavlick@idseng.com> wrote: <BR>>
<BR>> =============<BR>> You didn't fly fast enough to heat them up!
<LOL> Seriously, LiPOs perform best within a certain temperature
range. You electron heads should look into something that can keep the
batteries within this range. Maybe Peltiers? These are nice because thay can
generate heat OR provide a cooling effect. If anyone wants to explore this
I'd be glad to help.<BR>> <BR>> John Pavlick<BR>> <BR>> JEREMY
CHINN <lagrue@hotmail.com> wrote:<BR>> .hmmessage P { margin:0px;
padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } The
assessment on my Kudzu at the Nats was that my batteries never even got to
optimum operating temperature...... <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
---------------------------------<BR>> From: jpavlick@idseng.com<BR>>
To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:12:06
-0400<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Heat Sinks<BR>> <BR>>
Sounds heavy. Don't electric airplanes have trouble making weight (except
for Dave Lockhart's of course)? What are you guys doing for letting air in /
out of the fuse. Without proper airflow, even a good heat sink won't work.
Actually wouldn't it be better to make some kind of (light weight)
thermostatically controlled cooling system? Cold LiPOs don't make optimum
power.<BR>> <BR>> John Pavlick<BR>> http://www.idseng.com<BR>>
----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: Earl Haury <BR>> To:
Discussion List, NSRCA <BR>> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 9:49
PM<BR>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Heat Sinks<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
We all tend to mount E batteries on some sort of wooden / carbon / nomex
shelf and tie them down with Velcro or a clamp plate - none of which are
very good at transferring heat. Possibly we could improve heat transfer from
the batts to the cooling air by using aluminum, or better yet - finned
aluminum heatsink material for the shelf / clamp. <BR>> <BR>> I've
spent a fair bit of time trying for find appropriate heatsink material
online - something 4" long x 3" wide with a high count of thin, maybe 1/4
high, fins might work. Unfortunately, there's tons of heatsink material
available from Newark, Mauser, etc. but it's difficult to find the right
stuff - especially material light enough for our use. The closest I've come
is Thermaflo # E1243, but I'm lacking a small quantity source. <BR>>
<BR>> Anybody work with this stuff & have recommendations or
sources?<BR>> <BR>> Earl<BR>> <BR>>
---------------------------------<BR>> <BR>>
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