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</style></head><body id="compText">What do you mean by a bump? Engine bangs the chin cowl/ bellypan and cause the damage? If in the affirmative, it usually happens when it's ran out of fuel or on the lean side<br><br>Adrian<br><br><br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 0px;">-----Original Message-----
<br>From: Lisa & Larry <lld613@psci.net>
<br>Sent: Jul 21, 2008 8:00 PM
<br>To: 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org>
<br>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Question - YS140DZ
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Finally dug into this…<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Yep, it was the ole thrust washer and
engine RPM turning faster than the prop and spinner wanted to go…<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Root-Cause…After getting a new TT spinner
and adapter kit and new large thrust washer, it was obvious, I was not using
the same type of lock nut adapter kit as the replacement. Although locked, it
wasn’t snug against the prop.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Ran the 140DZ today and had a few DZ bumps
during the high speed needle adjustments, but everything held tight together
and I got the high end close now.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Turning an APC 16x11 at 8,500 RPM on Power
Master 30% DZ. About 90 degrees and very humid 80+…I suppose this is
about average RPM.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">The plane is a Titan is a wood kit and is 10-¼
pounds so this should be plenty of power for Intermediate…Hopefully well
get some flights in this weekend…<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">I still get a little bump when I cut power…What
causes this…?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">One was a huge bump and popped the side of
the fuse…Minor damage and low weight repair…some CA and covering…<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><st1:personname w:st="on"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Larry Diamond</span></font></st1:personname><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;"> Lisa & Larry
[mailto:lld613@psci.net] <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, June 02, 2008 8:45
PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> '<st1:personname w:st="on">General
pattern discussion</st1:personname>'<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> RE: [NSRCA-discussion]
Question - YS140DZ</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Thanks <st1:city w:st="on">Adrian</st1:city>
and <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Troy</st1:city></st1:place>…<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">I’ll try the sand paper trick and
check everything out. I’ll also check where my needle valve is at...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Troy Newman<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, June 02, 2008 8:13
PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <st1:personname w:st="on">General
pattern discussion</st1:personname><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Question - YS140DZ</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;">Sounds like the prop slipped on the thrust
washer like <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Adrian</st1:city></st1:place>
stated. This can happen. Try one of the Central Hobbies large diameter thrust
washers...I used these when we ran the 140DZ's</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;">The 160s and 170s changed the the thrust
washer to make it more aggressive bite on the spinner. The slip will
happen then the aggressive bite that is there gets smoothed off and then its
tough to get it to bite properly again.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;">Another little trick is to tighten the
prop...run the engine a little and get everything heated up...then stop
it...Tighten the prop up again and lock the double jam nut down onto it. Your
collet behind the thrust washer can get compressed a little and it will
actually slip if the engine backfires. Its because the collet is compressed X
number of times and the grip on the taper is not as good. This is usually only
a problem when the when you have had the thrust washer off the engine
and the first time you tighten it back up. If the thrust washer has not been
removed from the collet then its probably not the issue...</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;">We did the Central Hobbies thrust washer
in order to give a bigger diameter to bite the spinner.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;"><a href="http://www.centralhobbies.com/engines/ys/biggrip.html">http://www.centralhobbies.com/engines/ys/biggrip.html</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;">It works well. Not trying to pimp the
product but it was designed to solve this problem and also the bigger hub 3D
props had this problem too. The 160's and 170's don't tend to suffer from
this as much. The 140DZ has a good bit of compression and tends to have a
bigger kick....so the it can throw the spinners loose more that the others. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;">Another issue could be a little lean on
the pump....this would make it detonate a little on the throttle up. Try richen
the pump just a little bit 1/8th of a turn or so CW or (IN) if the engine
is sounding a little harsh or hollow when throttling up. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;">Your choice of prop is good in that its
not loading the engine too hard. The higher loaded props will tend to spit
harder when you run it out of fuel or the engine starves and goes lean.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;">Check you fuel filters..if they are
clogged up then you can get reduced fuel flow and it will make the engine go
lean for a split second on the throttle up. Its amazing what a small piece of
lint can do. If your fuel filter is the screw together type check it to make
sure its tight and not pinching the o-ring to allow an air leak.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;">Fuel lines or tank can have a small air
leak and get an air bubble in the line causing the burp....If it burps in the
air..check the prop for tight the next you fly it. Chances are it might have
slipped a little.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;">I have used about 60grit cloth backing
sandpaper like Adrian stated, Put two pieces back to back and CA them with thin
CA and it makes a good surface area grip. Another option is a small disk of
aircraft ply like 1/8th soaked in thin CA with the sand paper on both sides.
Tighten it to compressed the wood then CA it again and then tighten the prop
back up.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;">Like I said the 160's and 170's are lower
compression engines and don't tend to suffer from this kickback issue as bad.
In fact I have not had any problem with it the last few years. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;">You can reduce the kick on the 140DZ by removing
the crank shaft ring. This will reduce the power a little but makes the engine
run smoother less vibration and less kick if it gets an air bubble.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;">Also are you running the YS Bubbless tank
pickup (Foam clunk) you should be if you are not already. Talked to a buddy
today that was running a 140 Sport and put a 140DZ in his model. The foam clunk
seems light but when it gets fuel in it the weight is proper to keep it in the
fuel all the time.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;">As always check screws, on the carb, head
bolts, backplate, valve cover and so on. An air leak from a loose screw will
make the engine go lean. Not always kickback...but it could and be causing the
problem.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;">I hope this helps.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;">Troy Newman</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Lisa & Larry<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, June 02, 2008 4:41
PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> '<st1:personname w:st="on">General
pattern discussion</st1:personname>'<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> [NSRCA-discussion]
Question - YS140DZ</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Ran the engine at home about three weeks
ago and perfect idle, midrange, and full throttle... <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">I went to the field Sunday to maiden my
Titan…Started as it usually does, and while it was at idle I adjusted the
transmitter to get it dialed in after my Tx repair / reprogramming. This took
about 15 to 20 seconds…Let it warm up a little longer and then slowly
increased rpm…About ½ throttle on the stick, somewhere between 5,000 and
7,000 RPM I heard a low freq buzz (sounded like an electric motor burning
up…vbg)…shut it down and found that the spinner loose (new spinner,
new prop APC 16 x 11). This is the set up I have flown with this engine for 3
years…<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Tightened up the spinner making sure the
prop was tight and started again and got a DZ bump…nicked spinner, not
bad…Tightened everything up again, started nice idled well, then transitioned
to full throttle. Again at half throttle, it popped, quit, and shavings of prop
flew every where. It was violent. The spinner is bent worse than I ever saw
before by anyone…The prop was intact except for the missing chunks at the
hub where it hit the spinner.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Starting procedures and equipment:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Radio South Starter with on/off switch in
the off position, using a Kavan starter turn the prop and then turn on the
Ni-starter. Temperature was about 20 degree warmer on Sunday than the initial test
run. Used the same fuel from the same can, Power Master 30% DZ<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Three weeks ago it was running a bit on
the rich side and I didn’t touch anything until Sunday when I intended to
lean it out…Never got that far.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">What did I do wrong if anything? What can
I look for in the engine to repair or correct myself or looking at?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Or do I just send it in to YS Performance?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">I have a back up 140DZ and bought the last
FAI 3-¼ TT spinner w/ light backplate at Central…vbg…<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">If I made a mistake, I don’t want to
repeat it.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Your thoughts? <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Troy</st1:city></st1:place> you out there?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><st1:personname w:st="on"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Larry
Diamond</span></font></st1:personname><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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