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That makes sense. I may have to get some feeler gauges just for the
heck of it. <br>
I should be able to test the motor with the new piston today. Of
course I am almost out of fuel. I stopped at 2 hobby shops today and
one had 10% for $24 a gallon and one had 5%. I may run out of fuel
before figuring this out. Then I may have to let my son fly my Beryll
:)<br>
Stu<br>
<br>
Dave Harmon wrote:
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: blue;">Stuart…..to
measure the ring end gap you need to remove the piston from the sleeve
and then
remove the ring from the piston, then put the ring in the sleeve from
the
bottom and then use the top of the piston to push up the ring about ¾
of the
liner. This will also square the piston in the liner.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: blue;">Then
remove the
piston and using a flat feeler gauge from the top of the liner, measure
the
ring gap.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: blue;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="blue" face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: blue;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;">Regards<br>
<br>
Dave Harmon<br>
NSRCA 586<br>
K6XYZ[at]sbcglobal[dot]net<br>
Sperry, Ok.</span></font> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; color: windowtext;">-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Stuart Chale<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, July
15, 2008 7:03
AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> </span></font><font
color="black" face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; color: windowtext;">General
pattern discussion</span></font><font color="black" face="Tahoma"
size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; color: windowtext;"><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion]
120 AC issues UPDATE</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Interesting
email.<br>
I guess in the betterment of science I should do one more test with a
different
piston/ring in the offending engine before swapping it out totally for
another
motor.<br>
I am getting tired of pulling apart motors though.<br>
What I really want to know is how to measure those gaps :)<br>
I tried but the best I good get was somewhere between 0 and 1 mm with
my rulers
:)<br>
<br>
Stuart<br>
<br>
Dave Harmon wrote: </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="blue"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: blue;">Stuart…..here
is an old email from Mike McCormick that is
interesting.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="blue"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: blue;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="blue"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: blue;">>>>></span></font><font
color="black" face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">Because
the YS piston compresses in both the up and down
stroke, the ring is </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">serving
double duty. It must not only seal the mixture
being compressed, but </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">it
must also separate the two compressed mixtures. Once
the piston begins to </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">rock
and the ring loses its seal, then surge begins. If
you think about it, </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">the
YS engines with the highest compression are the most
problematic (SC and </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">the
L; the L is really just an SC version of the FZ).
Why do the pistons </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">rock?
No side wall. Plus (as Dick stated) the
pistons are made of soft 2017 </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">aluminum
and will wear quickly (especially if the engine is
run lean or fuel </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">with
low oil content is used). This piston design has
been in use since the </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">AC
and always been a pain. But in the 1.2's we could
alway <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">install an FS </span></b></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><b><font
color="black" face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext; font-weight: bold;">Piston
and cure the ill's.</span></font></b><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">
FYI, I once did a test on
an AC just to see how </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">much
more boost the AC piston created vs the FS piston; it
was less than 1/4 </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">psi!
I also noticed that any engine in which I
installed a FS piston ran </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">better
than it did with the compound type piston. I
figured this occured </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">because
the FS piston ran "truer" in the bore; it
created less drag because </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">it
was less prone to rock or cock in the bore (more side
wall). But along </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">comes
the 1.4 and we no longer have the FS piston to fall
back on, Plus the </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">1.4
piston was shorter and bigger in diameter,i.e, more
rocking force </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">(around)
the wrist pin is created and there is less length to
stabilize the </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">force.
Things didn't get too bad until YS increased the
compression of the </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">engine
(L version) and then the piston really started to get
beat up. </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">Because
of the higher compression, the ring seal is even more
important and </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">the
piston/ring fit has to be right for the engine to perform
optimally. And </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">the
optimal fit is within a narrow range. I set the
piston/sleeve clearance </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">at
.003 to .0035". Max clearance is
.005" .0035" is tight, and engines I </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">set
up must be run rich for a long time to properly break
in. I also set the </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">ring
end gap as tight as I can get it, usually at
.0055", though I like it </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">best
if I can get it at .003". But when set up at
these clearances and run </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">rich,
they will last 500 plus flights.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">So
what is boils down to is the old piston is soft and has
very little side </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">wall.
The forces on the piston are high and attack it from
both ends. This </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">creates
high side forces on the piston. The minimum
side wall works hard to </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">keep
the piston straight, but even in the best of conditions
(running the </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">engine
rich and using lots of oil) it is a losing proposition
for the piston. </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;"> The
new piston has 4 times as much side wall area under
the ring groove </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">(where
the old style piston experienced the greatest forces
and therefore the </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">most
wear). It runs very smoothly and I believe this is
because it too tends </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">to
run very true in the bore. I am sure it will last
longer because of the </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">increased
side wall area. </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">Sorry
for the length of this reply, and I hope it answers
your question. But </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">heck
while I am at it I might quickly address one other issue
I see a lot of </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">problems
with. Many flyers tend to set the mixtures too
lean on 1.4's. </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">Because
of the different plumbing in these engines, the
regulators do not </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">respond
as quickly as did those on 1.2's. To set these,
you must do it </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">slowly
and wait a few seconds for the regulator to equalize
with the change. </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">If
you move the needle quickly, and not wait it is very
possible to get a </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">false
reading on the mixture and usually it ends up too
lean. Kills the </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">engine
quickly. </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: windowtext;">Mike
McCormick<<<<<</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="blue"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: blue;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="blue"
face="Comic Sans MS" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: blue;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="blue"
face="Times New Roman" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: blue;">Regards<br>
<br>
Dave Harmon<br>
NSRCA 586<br>
K6XYZ[at]sbcglobal[dot]net<br>
Sperry, Ok.</span></font><font color="blue"><span style="color: blue;">
</span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 1in;"><font color="black"
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; color: windowtext;">-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Stuart
Chale<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, July 14,
2008 10:07
PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:adriancwong@earthlink.net">adriancwong@earthlink.net</a>;
General
pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion]
120 AC issues UPDATE</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 1in;"><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 1in;"><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I have
been mostly using
Cool Power 15%, but tried 30% heli today with the same results. No
special YS blends available locally.<br>
This plane is for my son to fly. Sure makes my electric Beryll seem
real
easy :)<br>
Stuart<br>
<br>
</span></font></p>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;" wrap=""><font color="black"
face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in; text-align: center;"><font
color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;">
<hr align="center" size="4" width="90%">
</span></font></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">_______________________________________________</span></font></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">NSRCA-discussion mailing list</span></font></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a></span></font></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="black"
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