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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'>That reminds me……one
time I was a bit too low on a half mile final with everything hanging out and
probably 85% power when the check pilot pointed out a main street intersection
just ahead.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'>He said “see
that manhole cover in the intersection???........that’s where we are
gonna be if we lose power”.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'>I never did
THAT again……ever.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:blue'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:blue'>Regards<br>
<br>
Dave Harmon<br>
NSRCA 586<br>
K6XYZ[at]sbcglobal[dot]net<br>
Sperry, Ok.</span></font><font color=blue><span style='color:blue'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b></span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>chris moon</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, July 02, 2008
12:09 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
747 Snap Entry?</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:
.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>I
had a DC-10 flight engineer instructor who used to say you can try <br>
anything you want....once. If you are still alive after that, maybe you <br>
can try it again. That was his way of strongly suggesting that you <br>
might want to follow the flight manuals and not get creative on your own <br>
inside a 400,000lb airplane. I will never forget his message.<br>
<br>
Chris<br>
<br>
John Konneker wrote:<br>
> American Airlines....more like 30 years ago.<br>
> Help me out here Chris.<br>
> There was a supposed "step" the 727 could be flown on that would
<br>
> increase performance.<br>
> Whoever was in the cockpit...first officer or captain...pulled the <br>
> circuit breaker so that he could do whatever he<br>
> did with the flaps or slats. When the other returned to cockpit he <br>
> saw the breaker out and pushed it in.<br>
> That's when whatever happened happened...plane went way beyond <br>
> Vne...blew the leading edge devices off. Terrorized<br>
> the passengers in the cabin...did a big split S or similar before <br>
> control was regained.<br>
> The story goes on that the cockpit crew erased the cockpit recorder <br>
> so nobody really ever knew what happened.<br>
> That's the version I heard anyway as told to me by Tom Street at the <br>
> Mesquite, Texas contest way back in like '83.<br>
> JLK<br>
><br>
>> To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
>> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 17:47:18 -0400<br>
>> From: rcmaster199@aol.com<br>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 747 Snap Entry?<br>
>><br>
>> A few of us were discussing just such an occurence recently which<br>
>> apparently happened by accident and darned near crashed the plane.
Dean<br>
>> remembered the details which went something like this:<br>
>><br>
>> The pilot of the 727 about 20 years ago had the plane trimmed as far<br>
>> aft as possible and had inputed a bit of flap to use fuel most<br>
>> efficiently. The co-pilot, soon after returning from a visit to the<br>
>> loo, saw the trimmed flap and flipped the switch to return the flap to<br>
>> neutral. This action immediately made the plane too tail heavy which<br>
>> made the plane do a pretty violent half snap to inverted. The pilot<br>
>> lost close to 25k feet pulling the plane out of the dive, which he did<br>
>> successfully but not before deploying the gear to slow the crate down.<br>
>> That had to be some kind of experience<br>
>><br>
>> Legend has it that the pilot then went straight to loo himself to<br>
>> change his britches (G)<br>
>><br>
>> Matt<br>
>><br>
>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>> From: Koenig, Tom <br>
<Tom.Koenig@actewagl.com.au>>> To: General pattern discussion <br>
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org>>> Sent: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 10:25 pm<br>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 747 Snap Entry?<br>
>><br>
>> Hey John,<br>
>><br>
>> Out of interest.....has anyone ever attempted a snap in an airliner???<br>
>><br>
>> I have heard of a captain doing a slow roll in a 747....but a snap? Is<br>
>> it possible?? What does a simulator do when pushed to such limits ( I<br>
>> know a simulator cant snap BTW...well, I assume any way LOL!!)<br>
>><br>
>> Tom<br>
>><br>
>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org<br>
>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John<br>
>> Gayer<br>
>> Sent: Tuesday, 1 July 2008 11:42 AM<br>
>> To: General pattern discussion<br>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap Entry<br>
>><br>
>> Actually a snap can occur without any aileron input...but I challenge<br>
>> anyone to show a pattern ship doing a snap roll on a 45 degree
downline<br>
>> without ailerons.<br>
>><br>
>> The approach snap can occur with only the use of elevator and it<br>
>> involves one wing panel stalling before the other. Try an approach
with<br>
>> crossed controls(aileron/rudder with some power. pull the nose up<br>
>> gradually and see which wing drops. It will be the wing with the
aileron<br>
>> trailing edge down. This is contrary to what we see in a pattern snap<br>
>> roll which always snaps in the direction of the aileron deflection
thus<br>
>> indicating the lack of any stalled condition<br>
>><br>
>> John<br>
>><br>
>> seefo@san.rr.com wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>>Just to stir the pot a little further..<br>
>>><br>
>>>I'm not sure a contemporary pattern plane can generate enough pitch<br>
>> rate to reach critical angle of attack and properly perform a snap
roll.<br>
>> I think it's far more likely that we're seeing nothing but a heavily<br>
>> yawed aileron roll, with the pitch break only being shown to judges to<br>
>> convince them there is actually a stall happening, when in fact there
is<br>
>> not.<br>
>>><br>
>>>If a snap cannot occur using ONLY elevator and rudder, then the
wing is<br>
>> not stalling. Aileron inputs into a snap actually inhibit flow<br>
>> separation, as the inboard wing angle of attack is drastically
reduced,<br>
>> and the outboard wing AoA is drastically increased.<br>
>>><br>
>>>But since there is no way to actually determine what is happening<br>
>> aerodynamically on an F3A airplane, the best a pilot can do is fly the<br>
>> airplane to what the judges expect to see based upon the rules. It<br>
>> really doesn't matter what the control inputs are if the airplane
LOOKS<br>
>> like it's doing the right maneuver.<br>
>>>_______________________________________________<br>
>>>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
>>>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
>>>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<br>
><br>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<br>
<br>
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