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American Airlines....more like 30 years ago.<BR>
Help me out here Chris.<BR>
There was a supposed "step" the 727 could be flown on that would increase performance.<BR>
Whoever was in the cockpit...first officer or captain...pulled the circuit breaker so that he could do whatever he <BR>
did with the flaps or slats. When the other returned to cockpit he saw the breaker out and pushed it in.<BR>
That's when whatever happened happened...plane went way beyond Vne...blew the leading edge devices off. Terrorized <BR>
the passengers in the cabin...did a big split S or similar before control was regained.<BR>
The story goes on that the cockpit crew erased the cockpit recorder so nobody really ever knew what happened.<BR>
That's the version I heard anyway as told to me by Tom Street at the Mesquite, Texas contest way back in like '83.<BR>
JLK<BR>
<BR>> To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 17:47:18 -0400<BR>> From: rcmaster199@aol.com<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 747 Snap Entry?<BR>> <BR>> A few of us were discussing just such an occurence recently which <BR>> apparently happened by accident and darned near crashed the plane. Dean <BR>> remembered the details which went something like this:<BR>> <BR>> The pilot of the 727 about 20 years ago had the plane trimmed as far <BR>> aft as possible and had inputed a bit of flap to use fuel most <BR>> efficiently. The co-pilot, soon after returning from a visit to the <BR>> loo, saw the trimmed flap and flipped the switch to return the flap to <BR>> neutral. This action immediately made the plane too tail heavy which <BR>> made the plane do a pretty violent half snap to inverted. The pilot <BR>> lost close to 25k feet pulling the plane out of the dive, which he did <BR>> successfully but not before deploying the gear to slow the crate down. <BR>> That had to be some kind of experience<BR>> <BR>> Legend has it that the pilot then went straight to loo himself to <BR>> change his britches (G)<BR>> <BR>> Matt<BR>> <BR>> -----Original Message-----<BR>> From: Koenig, Tom <Tom.Koenig@actewagl.com.au><BR>> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>> Sent: Mon, 30 Jun 2008 10:25 pm<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 747 Snap Entry?<BR>> <BR>> Hey John,<BR>> <BR>> Out of interest.....has anyone ever attempted a snap in an airliner???<BR>> <BR>> I have heard of a captain doing a slow roll in a 747....but a snap? Is<BR>> it possible?? What does a simulator do when pushed to such limits ( I<BR>> know a simulator cant snap BTW...well, I assume any way LOL!!)<BR>> <BR>> Tom<BR>> <BR>> -----Original Message-----<BR>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org<BR>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John<BR>> Gayer<BR>> Sent: Tuesday, 1 July 2008 11:42 AM<BR>> To: General pattern discussion<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap Entry<BR>> <BR>> Actually a snap can occur without any aileron input...but I challenge<BR>> anyone to show a pattern ship doing a snap roll on a 45 degree downline<BR>> without ailerons.<BR>> <BR>> The approach snap can occur with only the use of elevator and it<BR>> involves one wing panel stalling before the other. Try an approach with<BR>> crossed controls(aileron/rudder with some power. pull the nose up<BR>> gradually and see which wing drops. It will be the wing with the aileron<BR>> trailing edge down. This is contrary to what we see in a pattern snap<BR>> roll which always snaps in the direction of the aileron deflection thus<BR>> indicating the lack of any stalled condition<BR>> <BR>> John<BR>> <BR>> seefo@san.rr.com wrote:<BR>> <BR>> >Just to stir the pot a little further..<BR>> ><BR>> >I'm not sure a contemporary pattern plane can generate enough pitch<BR>> rate to reach critical angle of attack and properly perform a snap roll.<BR>> I think it's far more likely that we're seeing nothing but a heavily<BR>> yawed aileron roll, with the pitch break only being shown to judges to<BR>> convince them there is actually a stall happening, when in fact there is<BR>> not.<BR>> ><BR>> >If a snap cannot occur using ONLY elevator and rudder, then the wing is<BR>> not stalling. Aileron inputs into a snap actually inhibit flow<BR>> separation, as the inboard wing angle of attack is drastically reduced,<BR>> and the outboard wing AoA is drastically increased.<BR>> ><BR>> >But since there is no way to actually determine what is happening<BR>> aerodynamically on an F3A airplane, the best a pilot can do is fly the<BR>> airplane to what the judges expect to see based upon the rules. It<BR>> really doesn't matter what the control inputs are if the airplane LOOKS<BR>> like it's doing the right maneuver.<BR>> >_______________________________________________<BR>> >NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> >NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>> >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR><BR></body>
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