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<DIV>Two paragraphs below the one that Dave mention states:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><STRONG>"At the start of the snap-roll, the fuselage attitude must show a definitive break and separation from the flight path, before the rotation is started, since the model the model aircraft is supposed to be in a stalled condition throughout the manuever"</STRONG></EM></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>Vicente "Vince" Bortone</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Dave" <DaveL322@comcast.net> <BR><BR>> Ok..... <BR>> <BR>> What it does say is: <BR>> "in a stalled attitude, with a continuous high angle of attack" <BR>> "a stalled condition throughout the manoeuvre" <BR>> <BR>> So any rotation prior to the high angle of attack would be downgraded 1 <BR>> point per 15 degrees, and if the high angle of attack is never visible, then <BR>> the downgrade should be more than 5 points. <BR>> <BR>> I'd say losing 6 points on the snap element of a maneuver would be pretty <BR>> good incentive to use the elevator in snaps. <BR>> <BR>> Regards, <BR>> <BR>> Dave Lockhart <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -----Original Message----- <BR>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.n
srca.o
rg] On Behalf Of <BR>> rcmaster199@aol.com <BR>> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 1:49 PM <BR>> To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI <BR>> <BR>> Yes I read it again and still don't see where it is stated that the <BR>> departure in attitude is in pitch axis. Attitude change can be in any <BR>> of the three main axes IF you take the reg literally. Troy Newman made <BR>> this argument to me a year ago and he was / is correct. However, as I <BR>> argued to Troy, departure in pitch causes things to happen correctly in <BR>> a snap / flick roll. I will not restate what I wrote earlier but it <BR>> still holds true <BR>> <BR>> MattK <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -----Original Message----- <BR>> From: <BR>> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Jon <BR>> Lowe <BR>> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 12:11 PM <BR>>
; To:
<BR>> nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] <BR>> Snap entry in FAI <BR>> <BR>> I suggest people re-read the definition <BR>> ofsnap-rolls from the FAI sporting code. I did a few minutes <BR>> ago. Here it is: <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> "5B.7.5. SNAP-ROLLS <BR>> A snap-roll (or flick roll/rudder roll) is a rapid <BR>> autorotative roll where the model aircraft is in a stalled <BR>> attitude, with a continuous high angle of attack <BR>> Snap-rolls have the same judging criteria as axial rolls as <BR>> far as start and stop of the rotation, and <BR>> constant flight path through the manoeuvre is concerned. <BR>> At the start of a snap-roll, the fuselage attitude must show a <BR>> definite break and separation from the <BR>> flight path, before the rotation is started, since the model <BR>> aircraft is supposed to be in a stalled <BR>> condition throughout the manoeuvre, If the stall/break doe
s <BR>
> not occur and the model aircraft barrelrolls <BR>> around, the manoeuvre must be severely downgraded (more than 5 <BR>> points). Similarly, axial <BR>> rolls disguised as snap-rolls must be severely downgraded <BR>> (more than 5 points). <BR>> Snap-rolls can be flown both positive and negative, and the <BR>> same criteria apply. The attitude <BR>> (positive or negative) is at the competitor’s discretion. If <BR>> the model aircraft returns to an unstalled <BR>> condition during the snap-roll, the manoeuvre is severely <BR>> downgraded using the 1 point/15 degree <BR>> rule." <BR>> <BR>> Note that "the fuselage attitude <BR>> must show a definite break and separation from the flight path, <BR>> before the <BR>> rotation is started..." That means that simultaneous pitch and <BR>> rotation is specifically NOT permitted. I would interpret it as <BR>> meaning <BR>> that pitch and yaw could theoretically happen simultane
ously,
as long <BR>> as no <BR>> roll is involved. Sorry Matt, the rules as written do NOT allow <BR>> actuation in all three axes simultaneously. The rule also states <BR>> that a <BR>> constant flight path has to be maintained. <BR>> <BR>> Let's face it, the only way <BR>> to prevent severe downgrading from EVERY judge, not just some judges, <BR>> is to <BR>> have a pitch break first. Takes any question away. <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Jon Lowe <BR>> <BR>> -----Original <BR>> Message----- <BR>> From: rcmaster199@aol.com <BR>> To: <BR>> nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> Sent: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 10:46 <BR>> am <BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> A <BR>> "Flick" and a "Snap" roll are the same roll in full scale aerobatics <BR>> parlance <BR>> and reference material. <BR>> <BR>> Do these mean the same thing in <BR>> model aerobatics? In my view, they do <BR>>
; <BR>
> The latest FAI regs <BR>> allow actuation of the three main axes simultaneously...that is, the <BR>> regs <BR>> don't specifically differentiate "Pitch Break" from other deviations. <BR>> I don't <BR>> think they specifically require that the model must rotate about it's <BR>> flight <BR>> path either, I don't believe (.....plane must rotate in a conical <BR>> fashion <BR>> about the fight axis....). The model would probably present the best <BR>> if that's <BR>> done, so pilots may want to consider that when executing the <BR>> maneuver. <BR>> <BR>> In my take, a rapid Pitch is desired to preload <BR>> the wing. Contrary to popular belief, both panels dot not have to <BR>> stall for a <BR>> snap to occur. Quite the opposite. Upon rudder deflection, the port <BR>> panel will <BR>> practically stall (lift much much less than the other panel) but the <BR>> starboard <BR>> panel must be lifting to create the aut
orotat
ion. If both panels <BR>> stall, the <BR>> model will fall out of the sky for a distance and a snap would not <BR>> occur at <BR>> the correct moment in <BR>> time <BR>> <BR>> MattK <BR>> <BR>> -----Original <BR>> Message----- <BR>> From: Woodward, Jim (US SSA) <jim.woodward@baesystems.com> <BR>> To: <BR>> General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org> <BR>> Sent: <BR>> Mon, 16 Jun 2008 8:47 am <BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry <BR>> in FAI <BR>> <BR>> Guys, <BR>> <BR>> I thought the FAI changes <BR>> explicitly allowed flick rolls? The rule <BR>> reads, "... fuselage <BR>> attitude must show a definite break and separation <BR>> from the flight <BR>> path." <BR>> <BR>> It does not say, "MUST SHOW PITCH BREAK." Please DO <BR>> NOT ERROUNIOUSLY <BR>> APPLY A PASS/FAIL MAJOR DEDUCTION initial assessment <BR>> to the snap roll. <BR>> Watch the
whole
maneuver then render your <BR>> score. <BR>> <BR>> A break and separation from the flight path simply <BR>> means that the nose <BR>> and tail of the plane must rotate in a conical <BR>> fashion about the fight <BR>> axis. Yaw, roll, and pitch can all break at <BR>> the same moment if that is <BR>> how the pilot does <BR>> it. <BR>> <BR>> Hey :) some really handsome smart guy wrote some stuff <BR>> at this link <BR>> below about snap rolls to help clarify how they are done <BR>> in IMAC. <BR>> <BR>> http://www.mini-iac.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=77 <BR>> <BR>> thanks, <BR>> Jim <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________ <BR>> NSRCA-discussion <BR>> mailing list <BR>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news, <BR>> &
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