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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Nope </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vicenterc@comcast.net
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 17, 2008 7:25
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap
entry in FAI</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Isn't the snap from KE is called Loncevac (sp?)? I agree,
it is a lot faster than the standard snap. I don't know why.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>Vicente "Vince" Bortone</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: "JShulman" <<A
href="mailto:jshulman@cfl.rr.com">jshulman@cfl.rr.com</A>> <BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1555" name=GENERATOR>
<DIV><SPAN class=190122400-17062008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>and a
really fast one at that</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT size=2>Regards,<BR>Jason<BR><A
href="http://www.jasonshulman.com">www.jasonshulman.com</A><BR><A
href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com">www.shulmanaviation.com</A><BR><A
href="http://www.composite-arf.com">www.composite-arf.com</A></FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Mike
Hester<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 16, 2008 8:20 PM<BR><B>To:</B> General
pattern discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in
FAI<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Yep....there's a 1 1/2 snap from KE in
F-09.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Really cool looking manuever
too.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>-Mike</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vicenterc@comcast.net
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 16, 2008 7:55
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Snap entry in FAI</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Do we have KE snaps in the catalog? I never seen it.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>Vicente "Vince" Bortone</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: "george w. kennie" <<A
href="mailto:geobet@gis.net">geobet@gis.net</A>> <BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16674" name=GENERATOR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We often think that the wing is producing
zero effect when we go K.E., but the AOA of the wing is still positive
to the datum line and as long as we have forward movement of the
airframe a force will be generated away from the gear. That's why you
have down elevator mixed to rudder in order to nullify this effect. I
hear many people state that in K.E. the wing is not producing any
lift, but it sure is reacting to the airflow and
decalage.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>For the K.E. Snap the airframe still
needs to be in a stalled condition and it's still elevator that's
necessary to produce the effect of the stall. Due to the visual
perspective the increased AOA required to stall the wing will be
undectable to the pilot as well as the judges because in K.E. the
pitch-up will take place horizontally instead of
vertically.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>But then this is just my understanding
and I'm sure there are others who will straighten me out.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>G.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jpavlick@idseng.com href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com">John
Pavlick</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern
discussion</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 16, 2008
4:57 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Snap entry in FAI</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Which axis do you need to show a "break" in for a knife edge
snap? The wing isn't really "lifting", the fuse is.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John Pavlick<BR><BR><B><I>"george w. kennie" <<A
href="mailto:geobet@gis.net">geobet@gis.net</A>></I></B>
wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My lip is becoming too painful from
biting it, so I think I'm going to stick my nose in here
somewhere.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I think I'm with Jon on this
one.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My logic, however flawed, tells me
that if I am flying my plane straight and level and I input
rudder, no matter how much, there is no way that this input will
induce a stall to the airframe. Therefore, it seems to me, that
the necessary force required to stall the main lifting surface
must come from the elevator. It would further seem to me that this
input must, by it's very nature produce a pitching attitude to the
fuselage whether positive or negative. So I would have to conclude
that the attitude "break" referenced by the rule can only refer to
a "pitch" break and would be impossible to confuse with an
attitude change induced by the rudder seeing that the required
result is to stall the main wing.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>And yes Jon, I agree that it would be
necessary to lead with the elevator in order to bring about this
attitude change before rotation is started, however miniscule the
interval might be.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Of course I'm still open to hearing
other interpretations and their validations as these observations
are strictly opinions.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>G.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
</DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jonlowe@aol.com href="mailto:jonlowe@aol.com">Jon
Lowe</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 16, 2008
2:10 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Jim,<BR><BR>I have no clue how you think all
three axes can be initiated at the same time.
You keep forgetting the part of the RULE,
quoted verbatim below, that says the "fuselage
break and separation from the flight path" must happen
"BEFORE THE ROTATION IS STARTED". I'm NOT equating
fueselage break to pitch break, it could break in pitch
and/or yaw, if it doesn't start rotation at the same time.
If you initiate all three axis at the same time,
rotation WILL start at the same instant, and that is
specifically NOT permitted. READ THE RULE! The
judge MUST determine if the fuselage broke and separated from
the flight path first, BEFORE the rotation started.
If it didn't, he MUST severely downgrade.<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV style="CLEAR: both">Jon Lowe</DIV><BR><BR>-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: Woodward, Jim (US SSA)
<jim.woodward@baesystems.com><BR>To: General pattern
discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent:
Mon, 16 Jun 2008 12:37 pm<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Snap entry in FAI<BR><BR>
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<DIV class=Section1>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jon,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I’m
shocked - you are totally wrong here. Do not equate
“fuselage†to “pitch†in the reading of this
definition. As a judge you should NOT apply a
“pitch-assessment†pass/fail criteria to judging FAI snap
rolls. It is completely rejected. The plane and
therefore “fuselage†must autorotate about the flight axis,
which means that the nose and tail of the plane will move in a
conical fashion. The pilot can initiate with all 3 axis at
one time. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">It is
the responsibility of the judge to determine if autorotation
occurred, and not determine how or in what order the pilot did
it. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks,</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"
align=center><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Jon
Lowe<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B>
Monday, June 16, 2008 1:21 PM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">You
are correct, as long as there is no roll induced at the same
instant. I overlooked that possibility. Not sure how
rudder alone will induce the "supposed to be in a stalled
condition" though!! There are many attitudes (e.g. 45 down
on center) where a judge could not likely see a rudder
departure alone first, and thus conclude that
departure did not occur before the roll departure
started. And a judge might also not see a
pitch departure first on a end box upline snap, but he could see
rudder first. It is VERY clear that simultaneous
roll with either or both of the other axes
departures is NOT allowed as others have tried to
state here. I did say that pitch and yaw
departure could happen simutaneously, in my original post, as
long as roll doesn't occur at the same t
ime.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Jon Lowe</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR>-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: JShulman <<A
href="mailto:jshulman@cfl.rr.com">jshulman@cfl.rr.com</A>><BR>To:
General pattern discussion <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>Sent:
Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:22 am<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Snap entry in FAI</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV id=AOLMsgPart_3_02b65284-83ea-4950-beb7-d8726e751af5>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jon,</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I don't
see where it says pitch break? Rudder first will show attitude
break and separation from the flight path. So if one uses rudder
and elevator first this is also
correct.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Regards,<BR>Jason<BR><A
href="http://www.jasonshulman.com/"
target=_blank>www.jasonshulman.com</A><BR><A
href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com/"
target=_blank>www.shulmanaviation.com</A><BR><A
href="http://www.composite-arf.com/"
target=_blank>www.composite-arf.com</A></SPAN></FONT>
</DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in">
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Jon
Lowe<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B>
Monday, June 16, 2008 12:11 PM<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I
suggest people re-read the definition ofsnap-rolls from
the FAI sporting code. I did a few minutes ago.
Here it is:</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">"5B.7.5. <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">SNAP-ROLLS</SPAN></B></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">A snap-roll (or
flick roll/rudder roll) is a rapid autorotative roll where the
model aircraft is in a stalled</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">attitude, with a
continuous high angle of attack</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Snap-rolls have
the same judging criteria as axial rolls as far as start and
stop of the rotation, and</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">constant flight
path through the manoeuvre is concerned.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">At the start of a
snap-roll, the fuselage attitude must show a definite break
and separation from the</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">flight path,
before the rotation is started, since the model aircraft is
supposed to be in a stalled</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">condition
throughout the manoeuvre, If the stall/break does not occur
and the model aircraft barrelrolls</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">around, the
manoeuvre must be severely downgraded (more than 5 points).
Similarly, axial</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">rolls disguised as
snap-rolls must be severely downgraded (more than 5
points).</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Snap-rolls can be
flown both positive and negative, and the same criteria apply.
The attitude</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">(positive or
negative) is at the competitor’s discretion. If the model
aircraft returns to an unstalled</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">condition during
the snap-roll, the manoeuvre is severely downgraded using the
1 point/15 degree</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">rule."</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>Note that "the fuselage attitude
must show a definite break and separation from the flight
path, before the rotation is started..." That
means that simultaneous pitch and rotation is specifically NOT
permitted. I would interpret it as meaning that pitch
and yaw could theoretically happen simultaneously, as long as
no roll is involved. Sorry Matt, the rules as written do
NOT allow actuation in all three axes simultaneously.
The rule also states that a constant flight path has to be
maintained.<BR><BR>Let's face it, the only way to prevent
severe downgrading from EVERY judge, not just some judges, is
to have a pitch break first. Takes any question
away.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Jon Lowe</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR>-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: <A
href="mailto:rcmaster199@aol.com">rcmaster199@aol.com</A><BR>To:
<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>Sent:
Mon, 16 Jun 2008 10:46 am<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Snap entry in FAI</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV id=AOLMsgPart_0_f4e18038-9d63-45d9-87c7-a93410402f63>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">A
"Flick" and a "Snap" roll are the same roll in full scale
aerobatics parlance and reference
material. <BR> <BR>Do these mean the same thing in
model aerobatics? In my view, they do <BR> <BR>The
latest FAI regs allow actuation of the three main axes
simultaneously...that is, the regs don't specifically
differentiate "Pitch Break" from other deviations. I don't
think they specifically require that the model must rotate
about it's flight path either, I don't believe (.....plane
must rotate in a conical fashion about the fight axis....).
The model would probably present the best if that's done, so
pilots may want to consider that when executing the
maneuver. <BR> <BR>In my take, a rapid Pitch is
desired to preload the wing. Contrary to popular belief, both
panels dot not have to stall for a snap to occu r. Qu i te the
opposite. Upon rudder deflection, the port panel will
practically stall (lift much much less than the other panel)
but the starboard panel must be lifting to create the
autorotation. If both panels stall, the model will fall out of
the sky for a distance and a snap would not occur at the
correct moment in
time <BR> <BR>MattK <BR> <BR>-----Original
Message----- <BR>From: Woodward, Jim (US SSA) <<A
href="mailto:jim.woodward@baesystems.com">jim.woodward@baesystems.com</A>> <BR>To:
General pattern discussion <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>> <BR>Sent:
Mon, 16 Jun 2008 8:47 am <BR>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in
FAI <BR> <BR>Guys, <BR> <BR>I thought the
FAI changes explicitly allowed flick rolls? The
rule <BR>reads, "... fuselage attitude must show a
definite break and separation <BR>from the flight
path." <BR> <B R>It d oe s not say, "MUST SHOW PITCH
BREAK." Please DO NOT ERROUNIOUSLY <BR>APPLY A PASS/FAIL
MAJOR DEDUCTION initial assessment to the snap
roll. <BR>Watch the whole maneuver then render your
score. <BR> <BR>A break and separation from the
flight path simply means that the nose <BR>and tail of
the plane must rotate in a conical fashion about the
fight <BR>axis. Yaw, roll, and pitch can all break at the
same moment if that is <BR>how the pilot does
it. <BR> <BR>Hey :) some really handsome smart guy
wrote some stuff at this link <BR>below about snap rolls
to help clarify how they are done in
IMAC. <BR> <BR><A
href="http://www.mini-iac.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=77"
target=_blank>http://www.mini-iac.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=77</A> <BR> <BR>thanks, <BR>Jim <BR> <BR> <BR>_______________________________________________ <BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing list <BR><A
href="mailto:NSRCA-di scu ssion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A> <BR><A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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