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<DIV><SPAN class=420011816-16062008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Jon,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=420011816-16062008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=420011816-16062008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>I don't see
where it says pitch break? Rudder first will show attitude break and separation
from the flight path. So if one uses rudder and elevator first this is also
correct.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P><FONT
size=2>Regards,<BR>Jason<BR>www.jasonshulman.com<BR>www.shulmanaviation.com<BR>www.composite-arf.com</FONT>
</P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Jon
Lowe<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 16, 2008 12:11 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Snap entry in FAI<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>I suggest people re-read the definition
ofsnap-rolls from the FAI sporting code. I did a few minutes
ago. Here it is:<BR><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<DIV align=left>"5B.7.5. </FONT><B><FONT face=Arial
size=2>SNAP-ROLLS</DIV></B></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<DIV align=left>A snap-roll (or flick roll/rudder roll) is a rapid
autorotative roll where the model aircraft is in a stalled</DIV>
<DIV align=left>attitude, with a continuous high angle of attack</DIV>
<DIV align=left>Snap-rolls have the same judging criteria as axial rolls as
far as start and stop of the rotation, and</DIV>
<DIV align=left>constant flight path through the manoeuvre is concerned.</DIV>
<DIV align=left>At the start of a snap-roll, the fuselage attitude must show a
definite break and separation from the</DIV>
<DIV align=left>flight path, before the rotation is started, since the model
aircraft is supposed to be in a stalled</DIV>
<DIV align=left>condition throughout the manoeuvre, If the stall/break does
not occur and the model aircraft barrelrolls</DIV>
<DIV align=left>around, the manoeuvre must be severely downgraded (more than 5
points). Similarly, axial</DIV>
<DIV align=left>rolls disguised as snap-rolls must be severely downgraded
(more than 5 points).</DIV>
<DIV align=left>Snap-rolls can be flown both positive and negative, and the
same criteria apply. The attitude</DIV>
<DIV align=left>(positive or negative) is at the competitor’s discretion. If
the model aircraft returns to an unstalled</DIV>
<DIV align=left>condition during the snap-roll, the manoeuvre is severely
downgraded using the 1 point/15 degree</DIV>
<DIV align=left>rule."<BR></DIV></FONT><BR>Note that "the fuselage attitude
must show a definite break and separation from the flight path, before the
rotation is started..." That means that simultaneous pitch and
rotation is specifically NOT permitted. I would interpret it as meaning
that pitch and yaw could theoretically happen simultaneously, as long as no
roll is involved. Sorry Matt, the rules as written do NOT allow
actuation in all three axes simultaneously. The rule also states that a
constant flight path has to be maintained.<BR><BR>Let's face it, the only way
to prevent severe downgrading from EVERY judge, not just some judges, is to
have a pitch break first. Takes any question away.<BR><BR>
<DIV style="CLEAR: both">Jon Lowe</DIV><BR><BR>-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: rcmaster199@aol.com<BR>To:
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>Sent: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 10:46
am<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry in FAI<BR><BR>
<DIV id=AOLMsgPart_0_f4e18038-9d63-45d9-87c7-a93410402f63
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: #000; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff">A
"Flick" and a "Snap" roll are the same roll in full scale aerobatics parlance
and reference material. <BR> <BR>Do these mean the same thing in
model aerobatics? In my view, they do <BR> <BR>The latest FAI regs
allow actuation of the three main axes simultaneously...that is, the regs
don't specifically differentiate "Pitch Break" from other deviations. I don't
think they specifically require that the model must rotate about it's flight
path either, I don't believe (.....plane must rotate in a conical fashion
about the fight axis....). The model would probably present the best if that's
done, so pilots may want to consider that when executing the
maneuver. <BR> <BR>In my take, a rapid Pitch is desired to preload
the wing. Contrary to popular belief, both panels dot not have to stall for a
snap to occur. Quite the opposite. Upon rudder deflection, the port panel will
practically stall (lift much much less than the other panel) but the starboard
panel must be lifting to create the autorotation. If both panels stall, the
model will fall out of the sky for a distance and a snap would not occur at
the correct moment in
time <BR> <BR>MattK <BR> <BR>-----Original
Message----- <BR>From: Woodward, Jim (US SSA) <<A
href="mailto:jim.woodward@baesystems.com">jim.woodward@baesystems.com</A>> <BR>To:
General pattern discussion <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>> <BR>Sent:
Mon, 16 Jun 2008 8:47 am <BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Snap entry
in FAI <BR> <BR>Guys, <BR> <BR>I thought the FAI changes
explicitly allowed flick rolls? The rule <BR>reads, "... fuselage
attitude must show a definite break and separation <BR>from the flight
path." <BR> <BR>It does not say, "MUST SHOW PITCH BREAK." Please DO
NOT ERROUNIOUSLY <BR>APPLY A PASS/FAIL MAJOR DEDUCTION initial assessment
to the snap roll. <BR>Watch the whole maneuver then render your
score. <BR> <BR>A break and separation from the flight path simply
means that the nose <BR>and tail of the plane must rotate in a conical
fashion about the fight <BR>axis. Yaw, roll, and pitch can all break at
the same moment if that is <BR>how the pilot does
it. <BR> <BR>Hey :) some really handsome smart guy wrote some stuff
at this link <BR>below about snap rolls to help clarify how they are done
in IMAC. <BR> <BR><A
href="http://www.mini-iac.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=77"
target=_blank>http://www.mini-iac.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=77</A> <BR> <BR>thanks, <BR>Jim <BR> <BR> <BR>_______________________________________________ <BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing list <BR><A
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A> <BR><A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A> <BR></DIV><!-- end of AOLMsgPart_0_f4e18038-9d63-45d9-87c7-a93410402f63 -->
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