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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=109002205-15052008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>The penalty for going over time is all scored figures
<STRONG><U>after</U></STRONG> time has elapsed get a score of zero. The flight
is <FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG>not</STRONG></FONT> a zero...Just those figures
not completed.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=109002205-15052008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=109002205-15052008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>SO once you exit the box all figures are complete....If you
are still not on the ground there would be no penalty per the rules even if
8mins has expired</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=109002205-15052008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=109002205-15052008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Only if you were not "out of the box" yet when the time
expired you would get zeros on all figures not completed.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=109002205-15052008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=109002205-15052008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Which by the way in F3A you are not required to call
entering or leaving the box. So if you complete the last figure and have the
15meter of straight flight wings level...you are done....After than you can take
as much time as you like to land and that would even include go arounds...the
rule doesn't say you can't and there is no penalty for it. The landing score is
gone so you didn't violate the landing sequence. Before a go around was a zero
score because it didn't follow the landing sequence. There is no more landing
sequence. Even applying the AMA rule for extra passes because the FAI book
is silent you could not zero any of the figures, as the AMA rules state the next
maneuver gets a zero. Since all maneuvers are already scored there is nothing to
zero and you can't go backwards into the sequence and start taking zeros on
figures completed properly under the rules.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=109002205-15052008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=109002205-15052008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=109002205-15052008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Troy Newman</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>Dave<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 14, 2008 8:52 PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'General
pattern discussion'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAI flight time
rule<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jeff,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">10 minutes for
schedules with 23 maneuvers is not much different than 8 minutes for schedules
with 19 maneuvers (including takeoff and landing). With the older P
schedule, it was not difficult to exceed 10 minutes if the takeoff and landing
sequences were very large and slow (1 minute for takeoff seq, 45 sec to land –
pretty easy to save 30 seconds on these alone), and the sequence was big and
relaxed. Now, the Prelim sequences are 19 maneuvers (as are the finals
sequences) – which means about 90 seconds less airtime – so dropping the clock
from 10 to 8 minutes is not a biggy.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My understanding is
that the Prelim sequences were shorted to shorten the duration of the Prelims at
the Worlds – 2 minutes x 4 rounds x 100 pilots makes a huge
difference.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Regards,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Dave
Lockhart<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><A
href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Jeff Hill<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, May 14, 2008 11:33
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> NSRCA Mailing
List<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>
[NSRCA-discussion] FAI flight time rule</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">While reading up on the new FAI rules I came upon the
following paragraphs regarding flight time:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">from Section 5.1.11<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">If there is a frequency
conflict, the competitor must be allowed a maximum of
one <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">minute for a radio check before
the start of the 3 minute starting time. The timer will audibly
notify <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">the competitor when the minute
is finished and immediately start timing the 3-minutes starting
time. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">The starting time ceases
when the model aircraft commences its take-off roll. The timing device is
re-started when <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">the model aircraft commences
its take-off roll, and time will stop when the model aircraft
first <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">touches the runway after
completion of the flight. The total flight time allowed is 8
minutes. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=apple-style-span><FONT face=Helvetica
size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">from Section
5.1.12</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"> The competitor has eight
minutes to complete the flight; timing to start when the flight
line <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">official gives the signal to
the competitor to start his model aircraft and ending when the
model <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">aircraft first touches the
runway after completing the flight.<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold"> </SPAN></B><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=apple-style-span><FONT face=Helvetica
size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">5.1.11 seems to say
that the competitor gets 8 minutes from the time the TO roll starts. 5.1.12 says
the competitor gets 8 minutes from the time s/he is told to start the model
aircraft. </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=apple-style-span><FONT face=Helvetica
size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">If it is 8 minutes
total that seems short to me because someone could spend 3 minutes of the time
getting the engine started and only have 5 for the flight. I know sequences are
shorter now, but, we've had pilots exceed 10 minutes at the Nats so I would
think 2 fewer minutes would make even the shortest sequences tough to
do. </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=apple-style-span><FONT face=Helvetica
size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">Any rules gurus out
there want to comment? Perhaps electric fliers are getting a break after losing
out on the batteries-as-fuel issue. </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT
face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=apple-style-span><FONT face=Helvetica
size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">Jeff
Hill</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>