Where can I find a definition of what constitutes "hot-dogging"??<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 7:52 AM, george w. kennie <<a href="mailto:geobet@gis.net">geobet@gis.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div style="" vlink="purple" link="blue" bgcolor="#ffffff" lang="EN-US">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Wow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,........Sounds like not even a
penalty for "hot-dogging" after the final maneuver ! ARE YOU SURE , Troy
?????????</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Me</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
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<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
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<b>From:</b>
<a title="troy@troynewman.net" href="mailto:troy@troynewman.net" target="_blank">Troy Newman</a>
</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b> <a title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">General pattern discussion</a>
</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 15, 2008 1:34
AM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAI
flight time rule</div>
<div><br></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">The penalty for going over time is all scored figures
<b><u>after</u></b> time has elapsed get a score of zero. The flight
is <font color="#ff0000"><b>not</b></font> a zero...Just those figures
not completed.</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"></font></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">SO once you exit the box all figures are complete....If
you are still not on the ground there would be no penalty per the rules even
if 8mins has expired</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"></font></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Only if you were not "out of the box" yet when the time
expired you would get zeros on all figures not completed.</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"></font></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Which by the way in F3A you are not required to call
entering or leaving the box. So if you complete the last figure and have the
15meter of straight flight wings level...you are done....After than you can
take as much time as you like to land and that would even include go
arounds...the rule doesn't say you can't and there is no penalty for it. The
landing score is gone so you didn't violate the landing sequence. Before a go
around was a zero score because it didn't follow the landing sequence. There
is no more landing sequence. Even applying the AMA rule for extra passes
because the FAI book is silent you could not zero any of the figures, as the
AMA rules state the next maneuver gets a zero. Since all maneuvers are already
scored there is nothing to zero and you can't go backwards into the
sequence and start taking zeros on figures completed properly under the
rules.</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"></font></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"></font></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Troy Newman</font></span></div><br>
<div dir="ltr" align="left" lang="en-us">
<hr>
<font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Dave<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 14, 2008 8:52 PM<br><b>To:</b>
'General pattern discussion'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAI
flight time rule<br></font><br></div>
<div></div>
<div>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">Jeff,</span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"> </span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">10 minutes for
schedules with 23 maneuvers is not much different than 8 minutes for schedules
with 19 maneuvers (including takeoff and landing). With the older P
schedule, it was not difficult to exceed 10 minutes if the takeoff and landing
sequences were very large and slow (1 minute for takeoff seq, 45 sec to land –
pretty easy to save 30 seconds on these alone), and the sequence was big and
relaxed. Now, the Prelim sequences are 19 maneuvers (as are the finals
sequences) – which means about 90 seconds less airtime – so dropping the clock
from 10 to 8 minutes is not a biggy.</span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"> </span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">My understanding is
that the Prelim sequences were shorted to shorten the duration of the Prelims
at the Worlds – 2 minutes x 4 rounds x 100 pilots makes a huge
difference.</span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"> </span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">Regards,</span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"> </span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">Dave
Lockhart</span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"><a href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net" target="_blank">DaveL322@comcast.net</a></span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"> </span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</span></font></div>
<p><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">
<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Jeff Hill<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, May 14, 2008 11:33
PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> NSRCA Mailing
List<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
[NSRCA-discussion] FAI flight time rule</span></font></p></div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">While reading up on the new FAI rules I came upon the
following paragraphs regarding flight time:</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">from Section 5.1.11</span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p><font face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica;">If there is a frequency
conflict, the competitor must be allowed a maximum of
one </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica;">minute for a radio check
before the start of the 3 minute starting time. The timer will audibly
notify </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica;">the competitor when the
minute is finished and immediately start timing the 3-minutes starting
time. </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<div>
<p><font face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica;">The starting time ceases
when the model aircraft commences its take-off roll. The timing device is
re-started when </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica;">the model aircraft commences
its take-off roll, and time will stop when the model aircraft
first </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica;">touches the runway after
completion of the flight. The total flight time allowed is 8
minutes. </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><span><font face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica;">from Section
5.1.12</span></font></span><font face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica;"></span></font></p></div>
<div>
<div>
<p><font face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica;"> The competitor has
eight minutes to complete the flight; timing to start when the flight
line </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica;">official gives the signal to
the competitor to start his model aircraft and ending when the
model </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica;">aircraft first touches the
runway after completing the flight.<b><span style="font-weight: bold;"> </span></b></span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><span><font face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica;">5.1.11 seems to
say that the competitor gets 8 minutes from the time the TO roll starts.
5.1.12 says the competitor gets 8 minutes from the time s/he is told to start
the model aircraft. </span></font></span><font face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica;"></span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><span><font face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica;">If it is 8 minutes
total that seems short to me because someone could spend 3 minutes of the time
getting the engine started and only have 5 for the flight. I know sequences
are shorter now, but, we've had pilots exceed 10 minutes at the Nats so I
would think 2 fewer minutes would make even the shortest sequences tough to
do. </span></font></span><font face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica;"></span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><span><font face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica;">Any rules gurus
out there want to comment? Perhaps electric fliers are getting a break after
losing out on the batteries-as-fuel issue. </span></font></span><font face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica;"></span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><span><font face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica;">Jeff
Hill</span></font></span><font face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica;"></span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Helvetica" size="1"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Helvetica;"> </span></font></p></div></div></div></div></div>
<p>
</p><hr>
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