<div>Troy,</div>
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<div>You have 8 minutes from start of engine to touch down. I would recommend that one did not waffle after he or she exits the box</div>
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<div>MattK<SPAN contentEditable=false style="DISPLAY: inline-block"></SPAN></div>
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-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Troy Newman <troy@troynewman.net><br>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Thu, 15 May 2008 1:34 am<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAI flight time rule<br>
<br>
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<div dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=109002205-15052008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The penalty for going over time is all scored figures <STRONG><U>after</U></STRONG> time has elapsed get a score of zero. The flight is <FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG>not</STRONG></FONT> a zero...Just those figures not completed.</FONT></SPAN></div>
<div dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=109002205-15052008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </div>
<div dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=109002205-15052008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>SO once you exit the box all figures are complete....If you are still not on the ground there would be no penalty per the rules even if 8mins has expired</FONT></SPAN></div>
<div dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=109002205-15052008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </div>
<div dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=109002205-15052008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Only if you were not "out of the box" yet when the time expired you would get zeros on all figures not completed.</FONT></SPAN></div>
<div dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=109002205-15052008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </div>
<div dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=109002205-15052008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Which by the way in F3A you are not required to call entering or leaving the box. So if you complete the last figure and have the 15meter of straight flight wings level...you are done....After than you can take as much time as you like to land and that would even include go arounds...the rule doesn't say you can't and there is no penalty for it. The landing score is gone so you didn't violate the landing sequence. Before a go around was a zero score because it didn't follow the landing sequence. There is no more landing sequence. Even applying the AMA rule for extra passes because the FAI book is silent you could not zero any of the figures, as the AMA rules state the next maneuver gets a zero. Since all maneuvers are already scored there is nothing to zero and you can't go backwards into the sequence and start taking zeros on figures completed properly under the rules.</FONT></SPAN></div>
<div dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=109002205-15052008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </div>
<div dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=109002205-15052008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </div>
<div dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=109002205-15052008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Troy Newman</FONT></SPAN></div>
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<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Dave<br>
<B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 14, 2008 8:52 PM<br>
<B>To:</B> 'General pattern discussion'<br>
<B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAI flight time rule<br>
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<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jeff,</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">10 minutes for schedules with 23 maneuvers is not much different than 8 minutes for schedules with 19 maneuvers (including takeoff and landing). With the older P schedule, it was not difficult to exceed 10 minutes if the takeoff and landing sequences were very large and slow (1 minute for takeoff seq, 45 sec to land – pretty easy to save 30 seconds on these alone), and the sequence was big and relaxed. Now, the Prelim sequences are 19 maneuvers (as are the finals sequences) – which means about 90 seconds less airtime – so dropping the clock from 10 to 8 minutes is not a biggy.</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My understanding is that the Prelim sequences were shorted to shorten the duration of the Prelims at the Worlds – 2 minutes x 4 rounds x 100 pilots makes a huge difference.</SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Regards,</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Dave Lockhart</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><A href="mailto:DaveL322@comcast.net">DaveL322@comcast.net</A></SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> <A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A> [<A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Jeff Hill<br>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, May 14, 2008 11:33 PM<br>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> NSRCA Mailing List<br>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [NSRCA-discussion] FAI flight time rule</SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">While reading up on the new FAI rules I came upon the following paragraphs regarding flight time:</SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">from Section 5.1.11</SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">If there is a frequency conflict, the competitor must be allowed a maximum of one </SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">minute for a radio check before the start of the 3 minute starting time. The timer will audibly notify </SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">the competitor when the minute is finished and immediately start timing the 3-minutes starting time. </SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">The starting time ceases when the model aircraft commences its take-off roll. The timing device is re-started when </SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">the model aircraft commences its take-off roll, and time will stop when the model aircraft first </SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">touches the runway after completion of the flight. The total flight time allowed is 8 minutes. </SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=apple-style-span><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">from Section 5.1.12</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"></SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"> The competitor has eight minutes to complete the flight; timing to start when the flight line </SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">official gives the signal to the competitor to start his model aircraft and ending when the model </SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">aircraft first touches the runway after completing the flight.<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold"> </SPAN></B></SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=apple-style-span><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">5.1.11 seems to say that the competitor gets 8 minutes from the time the TO roll starts. 5.1.12 says the competitor gets 8 minutes from the time s/he is told to start the model aircraft. </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"></SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=apple-style-span><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">If it is 8 minutes total that seems short to me because someone could spend 3 minutes of the time getting the engine started and only have 5 for the flight. I know sequences are shorter now, but, we've had pilots exceed 10 minutes at the Nats so I would think 2 fewer minutes would make even the shortest sequences tough to do. </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"></SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=apple-style-span><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">Any rules gurus out there want to comment? Perhaps electric fliers are getting a break after losing out on the batteries-as-fuel issue. </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"></SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=apple-style-span><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">Jeff Hill</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT face=Helvetica size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"></SPAN></FONT></div>
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