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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I personally know Jim, and have for a
number of years. I point this out, because it may mean I have a bias.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Couple questions I have –<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>- Is it possible Jim was simply asking a
question, and is legitimately puzzled as to why someone why someone who is
active on and benefiting from the list would not support the organization that
sponsors the list?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>- Does Jim have a history of positive
contributions to the organization and this list?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I’d like to think that most non-NSRCA
members that become involved on this list for any length of time would
eventually join NSRCA (as some have done), but it is an open list (and I like
it that way), so there is no requirement to do so.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I read Jim’s query as short, direct, and
free of sugar coating. I didn’t find it offensive, but I can see how it could
be interpreted that way. Knowing Jim, I sincerely think he is puzzled as to
why someone would not support a group that is providing benefit. For those
that don’t know Jim, and care to know what kind of person he is, I’ve never
seen him without a smile on his face, I’ve never seen him fail to help people,
and he is definitely passionate about pattern. For those that think Jim’s post
was offensive, perhaps maybe Jim deserves a little benefit of doubt – just my
opinion.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Dave Lockhart<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Pete Cosky<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, May 12, 2008 11:24
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Let us bicker about who can use the list</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Jeremy,</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Some of us just have off days and other like to debate ( I
personally fall into both categories ) but I think you will find that pattern
people are among the most helpful. That has been my experience at any rate with
VERY FEW exceptions.</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>If you need any help with your vacuum setup don't hesitate
to contact me directly. I have built a few of them in the past and have not
used weights on anything in the last 5 years. </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Pete</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:lagrue@hotmail.com" title="lagrue@hotmail.com">JEREMY CHINN</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Monday, May 12,
2008 11:12 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Let us bicker about who can use the list<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>Jim et al, as a guy who is terribly interested in flying
pattern this season and becoming a member of the NSRCA, your idea and
attitude initially turns me off to the organization. <br>
<br>
However, I'll temper that idea or feeling with the fact that every good
organization will have people who feel the way or act as you have. IE, my hope
and belief is that not everyone thinks as you do. <br>
<br>
I've managed to be part of this hobby for over 25 years and always subscribed
to the idea that sharing knowledge gets me more in return than I could ever
offer and often helps me make great new friends and as an extension of that
thought, an organization can benefit in the same way - new members, new
enthusiasm are gotten by free sharing of information and ideas.<br>
<br>
FWIW, one other thought to consider- there are always many more
listening/lurking than speaking/typing. So how many people might you have
run off now? Many won't tell you about it, they'll just go. <br>
<br>
Time to get back to my shop and finish tuning up my new vacuum bagging
system so I can bag my new pattern plane wings next week. <br>
<br>
Sincerely, a non-NSRCA member who subscribes to and learns from this list. <br>
<br>
Jeremy Chinn<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>From: pcosky@comcast.net<br>
To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 22:37:24 -0400<br>
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Let us bicker about who can use the list<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Then make the list members only if you would rather close
the gates instead of build bridges. If one wanted to make sure only members
were able to glean any knowledge from the NSRCA I guess we shouldn't hand
out KFs to people who are not members nor even have a booth at a show like <st1:City
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Toledo</st1:place></st1:City>.</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I'm with Dowayne and Ken.</span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>FYI - I subscribed to the list before I became a member and
it was the general helpfulness of the general populace on this list that made
me decide to join. After all you do not have to be an NSRCA member to fly in a
pattern meet. </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Can we now get back to discussing the hobby we all enjoy
instead of making this an US and THEM debate?</span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:patternrules@yahoo.com" title="patternrules@yahoo.com">Steven
Maxwell</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Monday, May 12,
2008 9:50 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Starters for YS in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Canada</st1:place></st1:country-region><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> I have to disagree I have seen this list been abrused
many times by people that have never been NASRCA members. I tyhink it's time
someone does watch the list. My hats off to Jim.<br>
<br>
<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>DoWayne Gould <<a
href="mailto:iflyrc24@gmail.com">iflyrc24@gmail.com</a>></span></i></b>
wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>I have to agree Ken. I don’t understand the strong arm
tactics. Is this the way to get new members to join the NSRCA? I don’t think
a public brow beating is good for anyone. If it keeps up you can count me out
next year at renewal time. I don’t agree with it, I don’t care to have it
done to me and I don’t like seeing anyone else getting it!</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>Dowayne</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Ken Thompson<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, May 12, 2008 7:02 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">jaqfly@prodigy.net</st1:PersonName>;
General pattern discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Starters
for YS in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Canada</st1:place></st1:country-region><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>That's kinda' harsh isn't it Jim?</span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:jaqfly@prodigy.net" title="jaqfly@prodigy.net">Jim Quinn</a> </span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:cchariandy@yahoo.ca" title="cchariandy@yahoo.ca">cchariandy@yahoo.ca</a>
; <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">General pattern discussion</a> </span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Monday, May 12,
2008 11:25 AM</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Starters for YS in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Canada</st1:place></st1:country-region></span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Colin, Why do you keep coming to us (NSRCA) for help but refuse to join
our membership? It makes no sense to me.</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Jim Quinn<br>
<br>
<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>colin chariandy <<a
href="mailto:cchariandy@yahoo.ca">cchariandy@yahoo.ca</a>></span></i></b>
wrote:</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Will the KAVAN in 12V gell cell work?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Colin.<br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Mon, 5/12/08, Mark Atwood <i><span
style='font-style:italic'><<a href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com">atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</a>></span></i></span></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>From: Mark Atwood <<a
href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com">atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Starters for YS in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Canada</st1:place></st1:country-region><br>
To: <a href="mailto:cchariandy@yahoo.ca">cchariandy@yahoo.ca</a>,
"General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Received: Monday, May 12, 2008, 9:50 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Calibri'>I’ve been using the Kavan for years. No
problems. It’s currently starting my 1.60 and 1.70DZ’s
Can’t comment on the others, as to whether they are
better or not, but the Kavan will work just fine.<br>
<br>
-Mark<br>
<br>
<br>
On 5/12/08 9:39 AM, "colin chariandy" <cchariandy@yahoo.ca>
wrote:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:Calibri'>Hi all I tried to start my DZ with a regular,
non-geared 12V Sullivan starter yesterday...no joy. I know guys are
running geared staters from B&P and PAM, but I can't find starters like
those in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Canada</st1:place></st1:country-region>.
My options at the LHS are KAVAN and Sullivan Dynatron. The KAVAN
is really compact...but can it turn over a 170? And the Dynatron....I guess I
can use it in the weight room after flying. Can you advise which is
more commonly used and functions better? Of course if there are other
options the Canadians can chime in. Thanks much Colin. <br>
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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