<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16640" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=796392202-15042008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Sorry Nat... I must have blown right by this one!
<along with the wind></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=796392202-15042008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=796392202-15042008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>We had great weather this past weekend - temps in the high
80's and little to no wind. I got a chance to finally do some decent
trimming over the weekend (Sunday especially) and I think the plane is just
about trimmed to my liking. I did add nose weight (battery pack) and that
has definitely helped as well.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=796392202-15042008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=796392202-15042008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Mixes:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=796392202-15042008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=796392202-15042008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Downline - down ele to maintain straight line -
2%</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=796392202-15042008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>KE - both require up ele (5% on one side and 8% on the
other) - also need ail. to maintain KE</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=796392202-15042008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=796392202-15042008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I also have a low throttle - ail mix (1%) to counteract a
very slight roll to the left when coming off throttle.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Nat
Penton<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, April 14, 2008 7:15 PM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA
Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Joy of
Trim<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Derek, are you keeping your mixes secret
<G></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=natpenton@centurytel.net href="mailto:natpenton@centurytel.net">Nat
Penton</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, April 12, 2008 8:26
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Joy of
Trim</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Derek, any good weather yet - what mixes are you
using ?</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=derekkoopowitz@gmail.com
href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@gmail.com">Derek Koopowitz</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=chad@f3acanada.org
href="mailto:chad@f3acanada.org">chad@f3acanada.org</A> ; <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 10, 2008 11:13
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Joy of
Trim</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>That is great news, Chad. I'm glad to hear that the issues got
resolved.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'm also very close on my setup... my stab is at 0 and the wings are
almost +.5. The plane comes standard without downthrust and I have
since added some to help with the pull to the canopy in the upline - its
almost 100% but not quite. I think I may still be a little tail heavy
and will add some nose weight when I get a day that is calm - it has been a
little breezy here. Overall my plane is flying much better now as
well.<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Chad Northeast
<<A href="mailto:chadnortheast@shaw.ca">chadnortheast@shaw.ca</A>>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Guys<BR><BR>A
while back I posted this, and have recently got around to the suggestions.
Both Bryan and Nat said that the TL was far too much negative as the
Twister has -2.5 deg molded into the fuse. So away I went, here is a
copy of the email (just below) I sent to them after my flights to resolve
it.<BR><BR>Before last week you could have never convinced me that you
could get a plane neutral in knife edge without giving up
something....well I officially stand corrected :-) They know their
stuff, were right on the money and the Twister goes pretty much anywhere
you point it now without mixing (except a bit on downline but I think I
can get rid of that).<BR><BR>I gotta say thanks to Bryan and Nat for their
help, they were bang on, and I would suggest to anyone that you give their
suggestions and honest try, I bet you are more than happy with the
results!<BR><BR>Chad<BR><BR>Hey guys,<BR><BR>Well finally got out flying,
good thing too since I am off to NY state<BR>again on Monday
:-(<BR><BR>So, here is where I was, I broke down and bought an
inclinometer so I<BR>could actually measure the plane directly....since I
am too lazy to do<BR>trig.<BR><BR>Engine, as molded is -2.5 but I was at
-3.5, wing +0.8, stab +0.1.<BR><BR>So I got as much of the down out of it
as possible which leaves me at -1,<BR>I can't do any more without shimming
the motor further out for more<BR>clearance spinner to nose ring. I
put the wing back to +0.5 and left the<BR>stab alone.<BR><BR>First flight
today, removed the left rudder KE mix I had (had none on<BR>right rudder),
and downline mix.<BR>- Plane needed a bit of down trim for level, but was
pretty close<BR>- Uplines went to the canopy<BR>- 45 ups inverted pulled
over the top fairly hard<BR>- 45 downs upright were pretty decent but
still dove a bit - recall this<BR>was my major beef with previous
setup<BR>- knife was pulling to canopy both ways<BR><BR>Second flight -
moved CG back as I have felt that it was too far forward<BR>in general,
and I think you would agree if you saw where it was.<BR>- more down
trim<BR>- Uplines became very close<BR>- knife both ways was pretty good,
really solid with right rudder, and<BR>very very close on left (slight
belly pitch)...probably not worth mixing<BR>out<BR>- 45 downs upright were
getting better<BR>- downline mix reduced 2% from start<BR>- 45 ups
inverted better<BR><BR>Third flight - took out 1/2 turn of incidence,
which by trig should put me<BR>at 0.41+ on the wings<BR>- uplines became
perfect, or really close...would need more flights in<BR>various
conditions to nail<BR>- everything else was really close<BR><BR>Fourth
flight - decided to adjust stab since I was carrying a little
up<BR>elevator, so I took 1/2 turn out of adjuster which should being it
close<BR>to 0<BR>- this pretty much sealed it<BR>- uplines are as before,
very very close<BR>- no KE mix - even in the KE loop at high deflections
its really, really<BR>good<BR>- took another 1% out of my downline mix (I
am at 2%, started at 5%)<BR>- 45 ups inverted are really good, just a
slight arc over the top<BR>- 45 down upright is finally straight.<BR><BR>I
need to spend some more time on it to really get a good feel, but
I<BR>think the downthrust was causing a lot of problems to this plane.
I have<BR>never had it in all aspects of flight this close yet.
I am anxious to get<BR>more time on it and see if the changes really
stick. Unfortunately on<BR>Sunday this plane is going to a buddy but
I plan on incorporating all<BR>these changes on the new Twister which is
why I wanted to get it figured<BR>out now :)<BR><BR>Any further comments?
CG is probably around 33% of MAC, but to be exact I<BR>would have to
calculate.<BR><BR>Upline snaps are as you say Bryan, on axis with no need
to lead....I was<BR>pretty happy to see that result
:)<BR><BR>Chad<BR><BR><BR>> > > From: "Chad Northeast" <<A
href="mailto:chadnortheast@shaw.ca">chadnortheast@shaw.ca</A>><BR>>
> > To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A>><BR>>
> > Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 4:57 PM<BR>> > > Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] the joy of trim<BR>> > ><BR>> >
><BR>> > > > Ok you trim masters, here is a tricky one for
you.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Bryan and I have been
through this a bit last year but I<BR>> ran out of<BR>> >
time<BR>> > > > before the Worlds to fix it and just flew with
what I had.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > On my Twister I
have this pesky problem, the setup is like so,<BR>> > >
><BR>> > > > wing = 1/2+ Bryans suggestion and I like
it<BR>> > > > stab = 0<BR>> > > > motor = factory
claims 2.5 down, have not measured but<BR>> could if asked,<BR>>
> I<BR>> > > > have added more to cure a problem see
below<BR>> > > > CG = has been anywhere from 275 to 300mm from
TE mostly<BR>> with the same<BR>> > > > result.
Currently its around 285-290 and it feels<BR>> good at that
point.<BR>> > 45<BR>> > > > ups inverted track
almost hands off if under enough power.<BR>> > > ><BR>>
> > > Symptoms,<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > >
Plane flies well, at this setup I need 0 mix right rudder<BR>> to ele
in<BR>> > knife,<BR>> > > > and about 2% up ele with
left rudder in knife,<BR>> > > > about 1/32" down elevator
with idle to fix a downline<BR>> > > > Added downthrust as the
increase in wing inc. and more<BR>> forward CG<BR>> >
really<BR>> > > > helped the mix in knife and made rollers
easier, but<BR>> forced an<BR>> > increase in<BR>> > >
> downthrust as the plane started pulling to the canopy on<BR>>
uplines.> > > Downline mix remained the same.<BR>> > >
><BR>> > > > The big problem I cannot resolve is this, a 45
deg down<BR>> upright (motor<BR>> > at<BR>> > > >
idle) the plane pitches to the belly and will not track on<BR>> its own
for<BR>> > any<BR>> > > > length of time. If I
switch the idle-down mix off<BR>> its rock solid on<BR>> >
that<BR>> > > > line.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > >
> I am open to all suggestions now that I have a bit of time<BR>> to
play<BR>> > with<BR>> > > > this, I hope Bryan chimes in
some more as I would like to<BR>> continue> where<BR>> > >
> we left off last fall. If you suggest something I<BR>> will
do my best to<BR>> > give<BR>> > > > it a go and let you
know how it works (provided it doesn't<BR>> snow!)> >
><BR>> > > > The plane is basically super locked in with
this setup,<BR>> except for the<BR>> > > > silly 45 down
upright, which is a problem in cubans and such.<BR>> > >
><BR>> > > > Comments and thoughts from the masters are
most<BR>> appreciated :) I<BR>> > consider<BR>> >
> > myself one of the, cant really trim that well but can
fly<BR>> through it<BR>> > just<BR>> > > > fine types
:)<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Chad<BR>> > >
><BR>> > > >
_______________________________________________<BR>> > > >
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> > > > <A
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>
> > > <A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><BR>>
>
><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing list<BR><A
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR><A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>