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<DIV>I believe that the Abbra has the same problem. As I said before, my electric version had similar negative TL. I adjusted to be close to zero. I flew fist time last weekend. That was my first fly this year. I really have so many trim problems in my fingers and brain that I can not give good results in trimming the plane. Also, it was very windy but it is clear that the results are similar to your results. I will try to fly this weekend if weather cooperates. I will report more details as soon as I have chance.</DIV>
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<DIV>Right now I am here: wings +0.8, stab -0.5, TL -0.5. I will try to get the TL closer to 0 before flying this weekend. </DIV>
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<DIV>--<BR>Vicente "Vince" Bortone</DIV>
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<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: Chad Northeast <chadnortheast@shaw.ca> <BR><BR>> Guys <BR>> <BR>> A while back I posted this, and have recently got around to the suggestions. <BR>> Both Bryan and Nat said that the TL was far too much negative as the Twister has <BR>> -2.5 deg molded into the fuse. So away I went, here is a copy of the email <BR>> (just below) I sent to them after my flights to resolve it. <BR>> <BR>> Before last week you could have never convinced me that you could get a plane <BR>> neutral in knife edge without giving up something....well I officially stand <BR>> corrected :-) They know their stuff, were right on the money and the Twister <BR>> goes pretty much anywhere you point it now without mixing (except a bit on <BR>> downline but I think I can get rid of that). <BR>> <BR>> I gotta say thanks to Brya
n and Nat for their help, they were bang on, and I <BR>> would suggest to anyone that you give their suggestions and honest try, I bet <BR>> you are more than happy with the results! <BR>> <BR>> Chad <BR>> <BR>> Hey guys, <BR>> <BR>> Well finally got out flying, good thing too since I am off to NY state <BR>> again on Monday :-( <BR>> <BR>> So, here is where I was, I broke down and bought an inclinometer so I <BR>> could actually measure the plane directly....since I am too lazy to do <BR>> trig. <BR>> <BR>> Engine, as molded is -2.5 but I was at -3.5, wing +0.8, stab +0.1. <BR>> <BR>> So I got as much of the down out of it as possible which leaves me at -1, <BR>> I can't do any more without shimming the motor further out for more <BR>> clearance spinner to nose ring. I put the wing back to +0.5 and left the <BR>> stab alone. <BR>> <BR>> First flight today, removed the left rudder KE mix I had (had none on <BR>> r
ight rudder), and downline mix. <BR>> - Plane needed a bit of down trim for level, but was pretty close <BR>> - Uplines went to the canopy <BR>> - 45 ups inverted pulled over the top fairly hard <BR>> - 45 downs upright were pretty decent but still dove a bit - recall this <BR>> was my major beef with previous setup <BR>> - knife was pulling to canopy both ways <BR>> <BR>> Second flight - moved CG back as I have felt that it was too far forward <BR>> in general, and I think you would agree if you saw where it was. <BR>> - more down trim <BR>> - Uplines became very close <BR>> - knife both ways was pretty good, really solid with right rudder, and <BR>> very very close on left (slight belly pitch)...probably not worth mixing <BR>> out <BR>> - 45 downs upright were getting better <BR>> - downline mix reduced 2% from start <BR>> - 45 ups inverted better <BR>> <BR>> Third flight - took out 1/2 turn of incidence, which by trig shou
ld put me <BR>> at 0.41+ on the wings <BR>> - uplines became perfect, or really close...would need more flights in <BR>> various conditions to nail <BR>> - everything else was really close <BR>> <BR>> Fourth flight - decided to adjust stab since I was carrying a little up <BR>> elevator, so I took 1/2 turn out of adjuster which should being it close <BR>> to 0 <BR>> - this pretty much sealed it <BR>> - uplines are as before, very very close <BR>> - no KE mix - even in the KE loop at high deflections its really, really <BR>> good <BR>> - took another 1% out of my downline mix (I am at 2%, started at 5%) <BR>> - 45 ups inverted are really good, just a slight arc over the top <BR>> - 45 down upright is finally straight. <BR>> <BR>> I need to spend some more time on it to really get a good feel, but I <BR>> think the downthrust was causing a lot of problems to this plane. I have <BR>> never had it in all aspects of flight this cl
ose yet. I am anxious to get <BR>> more time on it and see if the changes really stick. Unfortunately on <BR>> Sunday this plane is going to a buddy but I plan on incorporating all <BR>> these changes on the new Twister which is why I wanted to get it figured <BR>> out now :) <BR>> <BR>> Any further comments? CG is probably around 33% of MAC, but to be exact I <BR>> would have to calculate. <BR>> <BR>> Upline snaps are as you say Bryan, on axis with no need to lead....I was <BR>> pretty happy to see that result :) <BR>> <BR>> Chad <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> > > > From: "Chad Northeast" <CHADNORTHEAST@SHAW.CA><BR>> > > > To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> > > > Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 4:57 PM <BR>> > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] the joy of trim <BR>> > > > <BR>> > > > <BR>> > > > > Ok you trim masters, here is a tricky one
for you. <BR>> > > > > <BR>> > > > > Bryan and I have been through this a bit last year but I <BR>> > ran out of <BR>> > > time <BR>> > > > > before the Worlds to fix it and just flew with what I had. <BR>> > > > > <BR>> > > > > On my Twister I have this pesky problem, the setup is like so, <BR>> > > > > <BR>> > > > > wing = 1/2+ Bryans suggestion and I like it <BR>> > > > > stab = 0 <BR>> > > > > motor = factory claims 2.5 down, have not measured but <BR>> > could if asked, <BR>> > > I <BR>> > > > > have added more to cure a problem see below <BR>> > > > > CG = has been anywhere from 275 to 300mm from TE mostly <BR>> > with the same <BR>> > > > > result. Currently its around 285-290 and it feels <BR>> > good at that point. <BR>> > > 45 <BR>> > >
> > ups inverted track almost hands off if under enough power. <BR>> > > > > <BR>> > > > > Symptoms, <BR>> > > > > <BR>> > > > > Plane flies well, at this setup I need 0 mix right rudder <BR>> > to ele in <BR>> > > knife, <BR>> > > > > and about 2% up ele with left rudder in knife, <BR>> > > > > about 1/32" down elevator with idle to fix a downline <BR>> > > > > Added downthrust as the increase in wing inc. and more <BR>> > forward CG <BR>> > > really <BR>> > > > > helped the mix in knife and made rollers easier, but <BR>> > forced an <BR>> > > increase in <BR>> > > > > downthrust as the plane started pulling to the canopy on <BR>> > uplines.> > > Downline mix remained the same. <BR>> > > > > <BR>> > > > > The big problem I cannot resolve is this, a 45 d
eg down <BR>> > upright (motor <BR>> > > at <BR>> > > > > idle) the plane pitches to the belly and will not track on <BR>> > its own for <BR>> > > any <BR>> > > > > length of time. If I switch the idle-down mix off <BR>> > its rock solid on <BR>> > > that <BR>> > > > > line. <BR>> > > > > <BR>> > > > > I am open to all suggestions now that I have a bit of time <BR>> > to play <BR>> > > with <BR>> > > > > this, I hope Bryan chimes in some more as I would like to <BR>> > continue> where <BR>> > > > > we left off last fall. If you suggest something I <BR>> > will do my best to <BR>> > > give <BR>> > > > > it a go and let you know how it works (provided it doesn't <BR>> > snow!)> > > <BR>> > > > > The plane is basically super locked in with this setup, <BR
>> > except for the <BR>> > > > > silly 45 down upright, which is a problem in cubans and such. <BR>> > > > > <BR>> > > > > Comments and thoughts from the masters are most <BR>> > appreciated :) I <BR>> > > consider <BR>> > > > > myself one of the, cant really trim that well but can fly <BR>> > through it <BR>> > > just <BR>> > > > > fine types :) <BR>> > > > > <BR>> > > > > Chad <BR>> > > > > <BR>> > > > > _______________________________________________ <BR>> > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> > > > > NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> > > > <BR>> _______________________________________________ <BR>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.o
rg <BR>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion </BLOCKQUOTE></body></html>