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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm glad someone else pointed it out so that I
didn't have to... Remember, this trimming method assumes you're not using any
mix. The mixes can be fighting something you're trying to correct.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Matt</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=natpenton@centurytel.net href="mailto:natpenton@centurytel.net">Nat
Penton</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 23, 2008 10:28
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>With 10+% KE mix you will get a pitch change
every time you make a heading correction.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com
href="mailto:homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com">krishlan fitzsimmons</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, March 22, 2008 10:30
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>You guys have buttons on your radio??? <IMG
src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/04.gif"> </DIV>
<DIV>I had a bunch of little silver rods sticking out all over mine, so I
broke them all off as they were always getting in the way.. <IMG
src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/11.gif"></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As for tonights session, well very light wind to no wind.. Perfect
weather.. 73 degrees, no clouds.. Man I love California for that.. Oh where
was I? </DIV>
<DIV>Well, I added the 1/2 degree of down back as suggested and I really
liked it. I also moved the cg forward, and I really liked that also. I
believe I am more nose heavy than you Vicente, I think it was a little more
than an inch in front of the tube, and definitely more than Jerry... It flew
even better than it did yesterday!! I don't think it's ever flown this good.
I could stop now with the adjustments, but I think I will move forward and
try to get rid of some more of the up ele mix in knife. I thought I was at
around 15% yesterday, one was 15%, the other side 18%, granted, this is down
from the high 20's.. lol.. Now, I'm at 10% on both sides.. And I'm more nose
heavy than you guys with Abbra's it seems. I like the feel of the cg.. It
feels good where it is.. It is carrying a little up trim in the ele's still
(which I expected with moving the cg forward). So that tells me I need to go
down with the front of the stabs to center them, but I will wait till I'm
done. Still pulls a hair to the canopy after about half of the
downline. Not much though. Up lines, and 45's were great.. Inverted 45 drops
off as expected. Inverted felt good with the 5% extra down ele that I added.
</DIV>
<DIV>Snaps, well, the positive is good, just fast (which its always been).
The negative, better, still a small hesitation to start, then speeding
up. Rotation stops good, but not great. Now I am no where near the 18
degrees of aileron throw you recommend Bryan, I am at 12 degrees at this
point. 8 degrees regular. I will add some more throw for tomorrow's (after
the easter bunny) session. </DIV>
<DIV>Move the wings ? Or should I go even more noseheavy to create more up
in the tail, meaning less up in knife? </DIV>
<DIV>When I left the field today, I was shocked with how well it flew.. Just
need to lock in the snaps I think.. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks for the help. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Chris</DIV>
<DIV><BR><B><I>John Pavlick <jpavlick@idseng.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Nat,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> You use the snap buttons? I'm shocked.
:)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John Pavlick<BR><A
href="http://www.idseng.com/">http://www.idseng.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=natpenton@centurytel.net
href="mailto:natpenton@centurytel.net">Nat Penton</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, March 22, 2008 4:01
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>1. If there was a way I could get
planform dimensions ( wing and stab only), I could tell you
where to put the CG - and, we could eliminate that variable</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>2. Use the snap button until you determine
how to trim the snaps. THEN you can fly them. This CRAP about
timing controll inputs is BS, unnessary, and one of your
problems</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I say go back to 3/4 positive on the wing
and 1/2 positive on the T/L. This should eliminate most of the KE
pitch mix and all of the downline
mix. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Is the stab adjustable
?
Nat</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com
href="mailto:homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com">krishlan fitzsimmons</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us">nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 21, 2008
11:22 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Ok, </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Well, I did feel I was a little tail heavy after thinking, so I
moved my batteries to the forward position and went back to 1/2 degree
positive.. What a huge difference that made.. Line's are better than
they have ever been. I've always fought this plane in the wind, even
on horizontal straight flights.. Today, horizontal lines were hands
off.. And it was pretty windy.. Up lines were much easier to fly. Not
sure if it pulls to the canopy up or down as it was windy. But it held
the track better all the way around. The wind was straight down the
runway, and the plane held it's distance almost by itself. Very little
heading corrections were needed. Before, I've always seemed to be on
the rudder.. Even without wind. I actually left the field and said,
dang, that's the best this plane has ever flown.. Even told the
wife!!<IMG
src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/04.gif"></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Snaps, well that's still the strange thing. Inverted snaps seem
very sluggish, like I break it with down ele, then throw in the
aileron and rudder, and you can see the break, then it starts to
barrel, then it speeds up and can over rotate a little ( I added more
aileron throw, and took out some elevator and rudder, seemed to help a
little. Regular snaps are lightning fast, but they stop when I let go
of the sticks. They'd be great if they weren't so fast. I usually use
one dual rate switch which is for low and high rate. Never needed
anything different. I think I may need to try an inverted snap dual
rate and a regular snap dual rate on different switches. That'll be a
fun one to remember.. lol</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Oh, it carries a little up trim in the ele's now. My knife
up elevator mix of 15% on both sides is still there, but the roll
coupling changed a little.</DIV>
<DIV>I kinda liked how the cg felt, I gave myself 5 percent more
down ele so my stick felt the same inverted. Still I think I'd like to
try it a little further forward, but I feel it would be a mistake. I
didn't change motor thrust yet as I wanted to see the difference of
the cg and incidence change first. I did feel I had too much positive
in the wings and that I was a little tailheavy.. That's why I said the
honest setup of the plane last time.</DIV>
<DIV>So now I am, 0 downthrust, 1/2 pos wings, 0 stab. But it needs a
little up trim. I liked the way it flew, and presented today
(especially in the wind). Just didn't care for the snaps. </DIV>
<DIV>More tomorrow night if I can get out after the easter egg hunt,
or Sunday after the race..</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Any suggestions?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks, </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Chris<BR><BR><B><I>shinden1@cox.net</I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Chris
sorry I have not got back to you<BR>I see you have 3/4 deg pos in
the wings ,,thats too much! <BR>too much pos inc, will have the same
feeling and response as too much tail weight the rudder will make
the nose pitch down in both normal flying or knife ,,,and even
vertical lines because of the down elevator needed to trim the
model<BR>go to 1/2 pos. on the wings 1/2 deg down thrust ,,<BR>and
then move the c/g around till the left knife has no mix or very
little is needed ,,and the inverted elevator and rolls feel good
<BR>every thing else will fall in place <BR>any time you need up
trim with left and right rudder input your tail heavy ,,or you have
too much pos. inc in the wing <BR>Bryan <BR><BR>---- krishlan
fitzsimmons <HOMEREMODELING2003@YAHOO.COM>wrote: <BR>> Bryan,
<BR>> I was hopeful to hear back from you on this before I made a
change. No worries though, I know you are busy, and you've been a
great help with all of us.. <BR>> So if I go cg forward, I will
need less positive in the wings as I wil need up trim in the ele's,
correct? Or should I add 1/2 degree of down thrust? After seeing my
uplines and my horizontal lines, I don't think I need it. But, what
do I know? lol<BR>> I think the cg forward could help my snaps
and my downlines. I love the way it flys inverted and rolling right
now, but I need to change.. I'll try the cg forward and less
positive. <BR>> <BR>> C<BR>> <BR>> vicenterc@comcast.net
wrote:<BR>> Chris,<BR>> <BR>> Very good information. How
much right thrust? I think you are correct, move the CG a little
more forward. It could help the snaps also.<BR>> <BR>>
--<BR>> Vicente "Vince" Bortone<BR>> <BR>> --------------
Original message ----------------------<BR>> From: krishlan
fitzsimmons <BR>> > Ok Bryan, <BR>> > <BR>> >
Here's how I went out today and man was I suprised, 0 degree down
thrust, 0 <BR>> > stab, 3/4 positive in the wing.. Cg forward
where Budd recommends. What a <BR>> > difference.. I had a
neutral elevator for the first time since I owned the plane <BR>>
> without adjusting things.. Uplines were good, downlines pulled
to the canopy <BR>> > still. Horizontal lines, the plane DID
feel more locked into the line.. It's <BR>> > never felt like
that.. Mixing, well it still needed about 15% up mix in knifes,
<BR>> > down from 30% though. Inverted nearly hands off. 45
roll to inverted slowly <BR>> > drops the nose. 45 downs are
locked in. Snaps, well they suck for some reason. w<BR>> > Not
from this, but when I did cg, and other changes before, I changed
throws cuz <BR>> > the snaps sucked. It took alot more down
ele, and aileron for inverted snaps.. <BR>> > And still, when
I start the snap, it breaks, then slowly gets into the snap,
<BR>> > then speeds up too fast causing an overrotation.
Regular snaps are now too fast <BR>> > (easy to cure though
with a different dual rate<BR>> > setting). <BR>> > I
think my cg could go forward to help with the up ele needed in
knife, and <BR>> > also the pull to canopy on downlines
maybe?? Or should I play with the wing <BR>> > adjusters
more?<BR>> > <BR>> > Thanks, <BR>> > <BR>> >
Chris<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > Nat Penton
wrote:<BR>> > Wayne<BR>> > You missed the seminar - that
was the rest room .<BR>> > ----- Original Message -----
<BR>> > From: Wayne Galligan <BR>> > To: NSRCA Mailing
List <BR>> > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:21 AM<BR>>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>>
> <BR>> > <BR>> > John Crapper was not the original
inventor of the toilet. However Thomas <BR>> > Crapper was one
of the people that was responsible for it popularity. Not to
<BR>> > sure where John L Crapper came from but the original
inventor was John <BR>> > Harington. So maybe that's how the
"John" and the "Crapper" have been come to <BR>> > be known
as.<BR>> > ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > From:
Wayne Galligan <BR>> > To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> >
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:11 AM<BR>> > Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>> > <BR>> >
<BR>> > Water Closet (WC) is a toilet that disposes of the
waste by using water to <BR>> > flush it through a drainpipe
to another location. Modern toilets incorporate an <BR>> > 'S'
bend; this 'trap' creates a water seal which remains filled the 'S'
bend <BR>> > also provides siphon action which helps
accelerate the flushing process. Water <BR>> > filling up the
bowl creates a high pressure area which forces the water past the
<BR>> > S bend. At the S bend when water starts to move it
creates a vacuum that pulls <BR>> > the water and waste out of
the toilet. When no more water is left then the air <BR>> >
stops the siphon or vacuum process. At that point the water that is
going into <BR>> > the bowl continues to fill up the bowl to
equalize the bowl and the S bend. This <BR>> > ends the cycle
of one flush. Since there were no rooms designated for toilets
<BR>> > or crappers as they were called (named after John L
Crapper, inventor of the <BR>> > flush toilet) the term Water
Closet was coined as homes that had the out houses <BR>> >
moved indoors were usually located in<BR>> > closets in the
home.<BR>> > <BR>> > Flush away............<BR>> >
----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > From: Karl G. Mueller
<BR>> > To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> > Sent: Tuesday,
March 18, 2008 10:45 AM<BR>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
Vicente,<BR>> > <BR>> > "WC" actually is the short form
of "Water Closet".<BR>> > That's what the early Toilets were
called.<BR>> > <BR>> > Karl G. Mueller<BR>> >
kgamueller@rogers.com<BR>> > <BR>> > ----- Original
Message ----- <BR>> > From: vicenterc@comcast.net <BR>>
> To: adriancwong@earthlink.net ; NSRCA Mailing List <BR>>
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 10:04 PM<BR>> > Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>> > <BR>> >
<BR>> > WC = toilet. I wonder how many went and check.
<BR>> > <BR>> > --<BR>> > Vicente "Vince"
Bortone<BR>> > <BR>> > -------------- Original message
-------------- <BR>> > From: adriancwong@earthlink.net
<BR>> > BODY { FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY:
<BR>> > Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR:
#ffffff } <BR>> > body{font-family: <BR>> >
Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:9pt;background-color:
#ffffff;color: <BR>> > black;} "WC", huh? I haven't heard that
word since I've moved back from Hong <BR>> > Kong in the early
90's. <BR>> > <BR>> > May be I should try the knife edge
on a vertical down line, instead of doing it <BR>> >
horizontally? <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
-----Original Message----- <BR>> > From: vicenterc@comcast.net
<BR>> > Sent: Mar 17, 2008 7:00 PM <BR>> > To:
adriancwong@earthlink.net, NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> > Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming <BR>> > <BR>>
> That is called Coriolis accerelation. That is why the water
closets flush to <BR>> > the right in the North hemisphere and
to the left in the South hemisphere <BR>> > (looking the water
closet from above). If going down straight you are close to <BR>>
> the ecuator. If this do not happens as described the water
closet needs to be <BR>> > trimmed. <BR>> > <BR>>
> --<BR>> > Vicente "Vince" Bortone<BR>> > <BR>>
> -------------- Original message -------------- <BR>> >
From: adriancwong@earthlink.net <BR>> > I think Bryan is
hiding in his wind tunnel trying to duplicate the same <BR>> >
condition.<BR>> > <BR>> > I don't think it was my
digits. It's probably between the earth's gravitational <BR>>
> pull and soething in the northern hemisphere. I bet the plane
will do the exact <BR>> > opposite if I fly it in Australia
... .-)<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > -----Original
Message----- <BR>> > From: Derek Koopowitz <BR>> > Sent:
Mar 17, 2008 3:36 PM <BR>> > To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming <BR>>
> <BR>> > I think he wishes it was his thumbs... :)<BR>>
> <BR>> > The push to the belly was more than the pull to
the canopy... the pull was <BR>> > very slight.<BR>> >
<BR>> > <BR>> > On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 3:24 PM,
krishlan fitzsimmons <BR>> > wrote:<BR>> > I was going
to tell Adrian his thumbs cause this.. <BR>> > Just kidding of
course Adrian..<BR>> > <BR>> > C <BR>> > <BR>>
> Nat Penton wrote:<BR>> > <BR>> > Where is Bryan
when you need him <BR>> > <BR>> > ----- Original Message
----- <BR>> > From: <BR>> > To: "NSRCA Mailing List"
<BR>> > Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 10:17 PM<BR>> >
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>> >
<BR>> > <BR>> > > Bryan,<BR>> > ><BR>>
> > What cause the plane to pull to the belly on one rudder,
and to the canopy <BR>> > > on the other rudder during
knife edge.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Thx,<BR>> >
><BR>> > > Adrian<BR>> > ><BR>> > >
-----Original Message-----<BR>> > >>From:
shinden1@cox.net<BR>> > >>Sent: Mar 16, 2008 7:17
PM<BR>> > >>To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> >
<BR>> > >>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation
trimming<BR>> > >><BR>> > >>Lance you need
to find out exactly where the wing inc . is.<BR>> > >>I
think if you move your c/g back a little it will help take some of
the <BR>> > >>up trim out But you prob need more pos
inc, in the wing so we need to know <BR>> > >>where you
are at right now to determine exactly where to go<BR>> >
>>Bryan<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > >>----
Lance Van Nostrand wrote:<BR>> > >>> Bryan,<BR>>
> >>><BR>> > >>> The discussion list
moves faster than I can try this stuff out. Too bad <BR>> >
>>> I<BR>> > >>> have to work...<BR>>
> >>><BR>> > >>> I first only moved my CG
forward significantly and have improved overall<BR>> >
>>> tracking. It was windy Saturday and wind penetration
were good. <BR>> > >>> Bryan's<BR>> >
>>> suggestion was correct on CG movement to make this
improvement. However<BR>> > >>> with the forward CG
(and resultant uptrim) it pulls to the canopy <BR>> >
>>> slightly<BR>> > >>> on downlines. At
this point I noticed that during inverted flight, <BR>> >
>>> rudder<BR>> > >>> input caused a pull to
the belly (plane rose). This was weird. I then<BR>> >
>>> raised the incidence 2 turns and it fixed the inverted
flight problem <BR>> > >>> but it<BR>> >
>>> seemed to make the canopy pul! l worse . Interestingly,
KE flight was not<BR>> > >>> noticeably
affected.<BR>> > >>><BR>> > >>> The
other affect is that inverted 45 downlines drop toward earth faster
<BR>> > >>> than<BR>> > >>> upright
45s (which track nicely). Before this change, both 45s were <BR>>
> >>> fine.<BR>> > >>><BR>> >
>>> Is this the expectation?<BR>> >
>>><BR>> > >>> --Lance<BR>> >
>>><BR>> > >>>
_______________________________________________<BR>> >
>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> > >>>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>> > >>>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>>
> >>_______________________________________________<BR>>
> >>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> >
>>NSRCA-disc! ussion@ l ists.nsrca.org<BR>> >
>>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>>
> ><BR>> > >
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> <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
<BR>> > Chris <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
---------------------------------<BR>> > Be a better friend,
newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. <BR>>
> <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
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> <BR>> > <BR>> > Chris <BR>> > <BR>> >
<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
---------------------------------<BR>> Looking for last minute
shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.<BR>> <BR>>
From: krishlan fitzsimmons <HOMEREMODELING2003@YAHOO.COM><BR>>
To: NSRCA Mailing List <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>> Date:
Tue, 18 Mar 2008 23:24:07 +0000<BR>> <BR>> Ok Bryan, <BR>>
<BR>> Here's how I went out today and man was I suprised, 0
degree down thrust, 0 stab, 3/4 positive in the wing.. Cg forward
where Budd recommends. What a difference.. I had a neutral elevator
for the first time since I owned the plane without adjusting
things.. Uplines were good, downlines pulled to the canopy still.
Horizontal lines, the plane DID feel more locked into the line..
It's never felt like that.. Mixing, well it still needed about 15%
up mix in knifes, down from 30% though. Inverted nearly hands off.
45 roll to inverted slowly drops the nose. 45 downs are locked in.
Snaps, well they suck for some reason. Not from this, but when I did
cg, and other changes before, I changed throws cuz the snaps sucked.
It took alot more down ele, and aileron for inverted snaps.. And
still, when I start the snap, it breaks, then slowly gets into the
snap, then speeds up too fast causing an overrotation. Regular snaps
are now too fast (easy to cure though with a different dual
rate<BR>> setting). <BR>> I think my cg could go forward to
help with the up ele needed in knife, and also the pull to canopy on
downlines maybe?? Or should I play with the wing adjusters
more?<BR>> <BR>> Thanks, <BR>> <BR>> Chris<BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> Nat Penton
<NATPENTON@CENTURYTEL.NET>wrote:<BR>> Wayne<BR>> You missed
the seminar - that was the rest room <G>.<BR>> ----- Original
Message ----- <BR>> From: Wayne Galligan <BR>> To: NSRCA
Mailing List <BR>> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:21 AM<BR>>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> John Crapper was not the original inventor of the
toilet. However Thomas Crapper was one of the people that was
responsible for it popularity. Not to sure where John L Crapper came
from but the original inventor was John Harington. So maybe that's
how the "John" and the "Crapper" have been come to be known
as.<BR>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: Wayne
Galligan <BR>> To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> Sent: Tuesday,
March 18, 2008 10:11 AM<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Water Closet (WC)
is a toilet that disposes of the waste by using water to flush it
through a drainpipe to another location. Modern toilets incorporate
an 'S' bend; this 'trap' creates a water seal which remains filled
the 'S' bend also provides siphon action which helps accelerate the
flushing process. Water filling up the bowl creates a high pressure
area which forces the water past the S bend. At the S bend when
water starts to move it creates a vacuum that pulls the water and
waste out of the toilet. When no more water is left then the air
stops the siphon or vacuum process. At that point the water that is
going into the bowl continues to fill up the bowl to equalize the
bowl and the S bend. This ends the cycle of one flush. Since there
were no rooms designated for toilets or crappers as they were called
(named after John L Crapper, inventor of the flush toilet) the term
Water Closet was coined as homes that had the out houses moved
indoors were usually located in<BR>> closets in the home.<BR>>
<BR>> Flush away............<BR>> ----- Original Message -----
<BR>> From: Karl G. Mueller <BR>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
<BR>> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:45 AM<BR>> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
Vicente,<BR>> <BR>> "WC" actually is the short form of "Water
Closet".<BR>> That's what the early Toilets were called.<BR>>
<BR>> Karl G. Mueller<BR>> kgamueller@rogers.com<BR>>
<BR>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From:
vicenterc@comcast.net <BR>> To: adriancwong@earthlink.net ; NSRCA
Mailing List <BR>> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 10:04 PM<BR>>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> WC = toilet. I wonder how many went and check.
<BR>> <BR>> --<BR>> Vicente "Vince" Bortone<BR>>
<BR>> -------------- Original message -------------- <BR>>
From: adriancwong@earthlink.net <BR>> BODY { FONT-SIZE: 9pt;
COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff } body{font-family:
Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:9pt;background-color:
#ffffff;color: black;} "WC", huh? I haven't heard that word since
I've moved back from Hong Kong in the early 90's. <BR>> <BR>>
May be I should try the knife edge on a vertical down line, instead
of doing it horizontally? <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -----Original
Message----- <BR>> From: vicenterc@comcast.net <BR>> Sent: Mar
17, 2008 7:00 PM <BR>> To: adriancwong@earthlink.net, NSRCA
Mailing List <BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation
trimming <BR>> <BR>> That is called Coriolis accerelation.
That is why the water closets flush to the right in the North
hemisphere and to the left in the South hemisphere (looking the
water closet from above). If going down straight you are close to
the ecuator. If this do not happens as described the water closet
needs to be trimmed. <BR>> <BR>> --<BR>> Vicente "Vince"
Bortone<BR>> <BR>> -------------- Original message
-------------- <BR>> From: adriancwong@earthlink.net <BR>> I
think Bryan is hiding in his wind tunnel trying to duplicate the
same condition.<BR>> <BR>> I don't think it was my digits.
It's probably between the earth's gravitational pull and soething in
the northern hemisphere. I bet the plane will do the exact opposite
if I fly it in Australia ... .-)<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
-----Original Message----- <BR>> From: Derek Koopowitz <BR>>
Sent: Mar 17, 2008 3:36 PM <BR>> To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming <BR>>
<BR>> I think he wishes it was his thumbs... :)<BR>> <BR>>
The push to the belly was more than the pull to the canopy... the
pull was very slight.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2008
at 3:24 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons
<HOMEREMODELING2003@YAHOO.COM>wrote:<BR>> I was going to tell
Adrian his thumbs cause this.. <BR>> Just kidding of course
Adrian..<BR>> <BR>> C <BR>> <BR>> Nat Penton
<NATPENTON@CENTURYTEL.NET>wrote:<BR>> <BR>> Where is Bryan
when you need him <BR>> <BR>> ----- Original Message -----
<BR>> From: <BR>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <BR>> Sent:
Sunday, March 16, 2008 10:17 PM<BR>> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
> Bryan,<BR>> ><BR>> > What cause the plane to pull
to the belly on one rudder, and to the canopy <BR>> > on the
other rudder during knife edge.<BR>> ><BR>> >
Thx,<BR>> ><BR>> > Adrian<BR>> ><BR>> >
-----Original Message-----<BR>> >>From:
shinden1@cox.net<BR>> >>Sent: Mar 16, 2008 7:17 PM<BR>>
>>To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> <BR>> >>Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>>
>><BR>> >>Lance you need to find out exactly where
the wing inc . is.<BR>> >>I think if you move your c/g back
a little it will help take some of the <BR>> >>up trim out
But you prob need more pos inc, in the wing so we need to know
<BR>> >>where you are at right now to determine exactly
where to go<BR>> >>Bryan<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
>>---- Lance Van Nostrand wrote:<BR>> >>>
Bryan,<BR>> >>><BR>> >>> The discussion list
moves faster than I can try this stuff out. Too bad <BR>>
>>> I<BR>> >>> have to work...<BR>>
>>><BR>> >>> I first only moved my CG forward
significantly and have improved overall<BR>> >>>
tracking. It was windy Saturday and wind penetration were good.
<BR>> >>> Bryan's<BR>> >>> suggestion was
correct on CG movement to make this improvement. However<BR>>
>>> with the forward CG (and resultant uptrim) it pulls to
the canopy <BR>> >>> slightly<BR>> >>> on
downlines. At this point I noticed that during inverted flight,
<BR>> >>> rudder<BR>> >>> input caused a
pull to the belly (plane rose). This was weird. I then<BR>>
>>> raised the incidence 2 turns and it fixed the inverted
flight problem <BR>> >>> but it<BR>> >>>
seemed to make the canopy pul! l worse . Interestingly, KE flight
was not<BR>> >>> noticeably affected.<BR>>
>>><BR>> >>> The other affect is that inverted
45 downlines drop toward earth faster <BR>> >>>
than<BR>> >>> upright 45s (which track nicely). Before
this change, both 45s were <BR><BR>=== message truncated
===</BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT face="comic sans ms" color=#0000bf size=3>Chris
</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
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