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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The problem with the Abbra is a trim flaw, not a
design flaw.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Your mix switch arrangement is only good to provide
an excuse - you need the KE mix active for rolls, also. Its a distraction you
don't want.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Eliminating the up elevator trim will slightly
increase the up KE mix, not decrease. If you put the wing and TL as I
suggested you will be closer to trim and you may not need to move the
stab.
Nat</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com
href="mailto:homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com">krishlan fitzsimmons</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 23, 2008 10:56
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Nat,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>At this point, I have my mixing on a switch. I have level flight rudder
correction mix on a switch as active, and if I flip it, it goes to knife mix.
Until I get rid of more mix I will continue to use it this way. </DIV>
<DIV>My stab is adjustable, but it's not easy as I had to make 2 little
carbon donuts to go around the front carbon stab tube, and screw it in with
two screws on each side. By elongating the screw holes I
made it adjustable. I have to take the stabs off to do this. </DIV>
<DIV>I'm wondering, will some of the up ele mix in knife go away when i adjust
my stabs to compensate for my up ele trim? </DIV>
<DIV>I'm not sure if it's a design flaw with the Abbra, but it seems as
everyone has about 8 10% up ele mix in their knife's from what I've read with
this ship. I can easily live with it as with the mix, it fly's knife's the
length of the field with ease now. But I'd like to keep on making adjustments
now that I have a good reference point to start from. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks and Happy Easter..</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>C<BR><BR><B><I>Nat Penton <natpenton@centurytel.net></I></B>
wrote:</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>With 10+% KE mix you will get a pitch
change every time you make a heading correction.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com
href="mailto:homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com">krishlan fitzsimmons</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, March 22, 2008 10:30
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>You guys have buttons on your radio??? <IMG
src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/04.gif"> </DIV>
<DIV>I had a bunch of little silver rods sticking out all over mine, so I
broke them all off as they were always getting in the way.. <IMG
src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/11.gif"></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As for tonights session, well very light wind to no wind.. Perfect
weather.. 73 degrees, no clouds.. Man I love California for that.. Oh
where was I? </DIV>
<DIV>Well, I added the 1/2 degree of down back as suggested and I really
liked it. I also moved the cg forward, and I really liked that also. I
believe I am more nose heavy than you Vicente, I think it was a little
more than an inch in front of the tube, and definitely more than Jerry...
It flew even better than it did yesterday!! I don't think it's ever flown
this good. I could stop now with the adjustments, but I think I will move
forward and try to get rid of some more of the up ele mix in knife. I
thought I was at around 15% yesterday, one was 15%, the other side 18%,
granted, this is down from the high 20's.. lol.. Now, I'm at 10% on both
sides.. And I'm more nose heavy than you guys with Abbra's it seems. I
like the feel of the cg.. It feels good where it is.. It is carrying a
little up trim in the ele's still (which I expected with moving the cg
forward). So that tells me I need to go down with the front of the stabs
to center them, but I will wait till I'm done. Still pulls a hair to
the canopy after about half of the downline. Not much though. Up lines,
and 45's were great.. Inverted 45 drops off as expected. Inverted felt
good with the 5% extra down ele that I added. </DIV>
<DIV>Snaps, well, the positive is good, just fast (which its always been).
The negative, better, still a small hesitation to start, then
speeding up. Rotation stops good, but not great. Now I am no where near
the 18 degrees of aileron throw you recommend Bryan, I am at 12 degrees at
this point. 8 degrees regular. I will add some more throw for tomorrow's
(after the easter bunny) session. </DIV>
<DIV>Move the wings ? Or should I go even more noseheavy to create more up
in the tail, meaning less up in knife? </DIV>
<DIV>When I left the field today, I was shocked with how well it flew..
Just need to lock in the snaps I think.. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks for the help. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Chris</DIV>
<DIV><BR><B><I>John Pavlick <jpavlick@idseng.com></I></B>
wrote:</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Nat,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> You use the snap buttons? I'm
shocked. :)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John Pavlick<BR><A
href="http://www.idseng.com/">http://www.idseng.com</A></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=natpenton@centurytel.net
href="mailto:natpenton@centurytel.net">Nat Penton</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, March 22, 2008
4:01 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>1. If there was a way I could get
planform dimensions ( wing and stab only), I could tell you
where to put the CG - and, we could eliminate that
variable</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>2. Use the snap button until you
determine how to trim the snaps. THEN you can fly them. This CRAP
about timing controll inputs is BS, unnessary, and one of your
problems</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I say go back to 3/4 positive on the wing
and 1/2 positive on the T/L. This should eliminate most of the KE
pitch mix and all of the downline
mix. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Is the stab adjustable
?
Nat</FONT></DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com
href="mailto:homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com">krishlan fitzsimmons</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us">nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 21, 2008
11:22 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Ok, </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Well, I did feel I was a little tail heavy after thinking, so I
moved my batteries to the forward position and went back to 1/2
degree positive.. What a huge difference that made.. Line's are
better than they have ever been. I've always fought this plane in
the wind, even on horizontal straight flights.. Today, horizontal
lines were hands off.. And it was pretty windy.. Up lines were much
easier to fly. Not sure if it pulls to the canopy up or down as it
was windy. But it held the track better all the way around. The wind
was straight down the runway, and the plane held it's distance
almost by itself. Very little heading corrections were needed.
Before, I've always seemed to be on the rudder.. Even without wind.
I actually left the field and said, dang, that's the best this plane
has ever flown.. Even told the wife!!<IMG
src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/04.gif"></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Snaps, well that's still the strange thing. Inverted snaps seem
very sluggish, like I break it with down ele, then throw in the
aileron and rudder, and you can see the break, then it starts to
barrel, then it speeds up and can over rotate a little ( I added
more aileron throw, and took out some elevator and rudder, seemed to
help a little. Regular snaps are lightning fast, but they stop when
I let go of the sticks. They'd be great if they weren't so fast. I
usually use one dual rate switch which is for low and high rate.
Never needed anything different. I think I may need to try an
inverted snap dual rate and a regular snap dual rate on different
switches. That'll be a fun one to remember.. lol</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Oh, it carries a little up trim in the ele's now. My knife
up elevator mix of 15% on both sides is still there, but the
roll coupling changed a little.</DIV>
<DIV>I kinda liked how the cg felt, I gave myself 5 percent
more down ele so my stick felt the same inverted. Still I think I'd
like to try it a little further forward, but I feel it would be a
mistake. I didn't change motor thrust yet as I wanted to see the
difference of the cg and incidence change first. I did feel I had
too much positive in the wings and that I was a little tailheavy..
That's why I said the honest setup of the plane last time.</DIV>
<DIV>So now I am, 0 downthrust, 1/2 pos wings, 0 stab. But it needs
a little up trim. I liked the way it flew, and presented today
(especially in the wind). Just didn't care for the snaps. </DIV>
<DIV>More tomorrow night if I can get out after the easter egg hunt,
or Sunday after the race..</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Any suggestions?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks, </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Chris<BR><BR><B><I>shinden1@cox.net</I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Chris
sorry I have not got back to you<BR>I see you have 3/4 deg pos in
the wings ,,thats too much! <BR>too much pos inc, will have the
same feeling and response as too much tail weight the rudder will
make the nose pitch down in both normal flying or knife ,,,and
even vertical lines because of the down elevator needed to trim
the model<BR>go to 1/2 pos. on the wings 1/2 deg down thrust
,,<BR>and then move the c/g around till the left knife has no mix
or very little is needed ,,and the inverted elevator and rolls
feel good <BR>every thing else will fall in place <BR>any time you
need up trim with left and right rudder input your tail heavy ,,or
you have too much pos. inc in the wing <BR>Bryan <BR><BR>----
krishlan fitzsimmons <HOMEREMODELING2003@YAHOO.COM>wrote: <BR>>
Bryan, <BR>> I was hopeful to hear back from you on this before
I made a change. No worries though, I know you are busy, and
you've been a great help with all of us.. <BR>> So if I go cg
forward, I will need less positive in the wings as I wil need up
trim in the ele's, correct? Or should I add 1/2 degree of down
thrust? After seeing my uplines and my horizontal lines, I don't
think I need it. But, what do I know? lol<BR>> I think the cg
forward could help my snaps and my downlines. I love the way it
flys inverted and rolling right now, but I need to change.. I'll
try the cg forward and less positive. <BR>> <BR>> C<BR>>
<BR>> vicenterc@comcast.net wrote:<BR>> Chris,<BR>>
<BR>> Very good information. How much right thrust? I think you
are correct, move the CG a little more forward. It could help the
snaps also.<BR>> <BR>> --<BR>> Vicente "Vince"
Bortone<BR>> <BR>> -------------- Original message
----------------------<BR>> From: krishlan fitzsimmons <BR>>
> Ok Bryan, <BR>> > <BR>> > Here's how I went out
today and man was I suprised, 0 degree down thrust, 0 <BR>>
> stab, 3/4 positive in the wing.. Cg forward where Budd
recommends. What a <BR>> > difference.. I had a neutral
elevator for the first time since I owned the plane <BR>> >
without adjusting things.. Uplines were good, downlines pulled to
the canopy <BR>> > still. Horizontal lines, the plane DID
feel more locked into the line.. It's <BR>> > never felt
like that.. Mixing, well it still needed about 15% up mix in
knifes, <BR>> > down from 30% though. Inverted nearly hands
off. 45 roll to inverted slowly <BR>> > drops the nose. 45
downs are locked in. Snaps, well they suck for some reason.
w<BR>> > Not from this, but when I did cg, and other changes
before, I changed throws cuz <BR>> > the snaps sucked. It
took alot more down ele, and aileron for inverted snaps.. <BR>>
> And still, when I start the snap, it breaks, then slowly gets
into the snap, <BR>> > then speeds up too fast causing an
overrotation. Regular snaps are now too fast <BR>> > (easy
to cure though with a different dual rate<BR>> > setting).
<BR>> > I think my cg could go forward to help with the up
ele needed in knife, and <BR>> > also the pull to canopy on
downlines maybe?? Or should I play with the wing <BR>> >
adjusters more?<BR>> > <BR>> > Thanks, <BR>> >
<BR>> > Chris<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > Nat
Penton wrote:<BR>> > Wayne<BR>> > You missed the
seminar - that was the rest room .<BR>> > ----- Original
Message ----- <BR>> > From: Wayne Galligan <BR>> > To:
NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008
10:21 AM<BR>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
John Crapper was not the original inventor of the toilet. However
Thomas <BR>> > Crapper was one of the people that was
responsible for it popularity. Not to <BR>> > sure where
John L Crapper came from but the original inventor was John
<BR>> > Harington. So maybe that's how the "John" and the
"Crapper" have been come to <BR>> > be known as.<BR>>
> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > From: Wayne
Galligan <BR>> > To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> > Sent:
Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:11 AM<BR>> > Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>> > <BR>>
> <BR>> > Water Closet (WC) is a toilet that disposes of
the waste by using water to <BR>> > flush it through a
drainpipe to another location. Modern toilets incorporate an
<BR>> > 'S' bend; this 'trap' creates a water seal which
remains filled the 'S' bend <BR>> > also provides siphon
action which helps accelerate the flushing process. Water <BR>>
> filling up the bowl creates a high pressure area which forces
the water past the <BR>> > S bend. At the S bend when water
starts to move it creates a vacuum that pulls <BR>> > the
water and waste out of the toilet. When no more water is left then
the air <BR>> > stops the siphon or vacuum process. At that
point the water that is going into <BR>> > the bowl
continues to fill up the bowl to equalize the bowl and the S bend.
This <BR>> > ends the cycle of one flush. Since there were
no rooms designated for toilets <BR>> > or crappers as they
were called (named after John L Crapper, inventor of the <BR>>
> flush toilet) the term Water Closet was coined as homes that
had the out houses <BR>> > moved indoors were usually
located in<BR>> > closets in the home.<BR>> > <BR>>
> Flush away............<BR>> > ----- Original Message
----- <BR>> > From: Karl G. Mueller <BR>> > To: NSRCA
Mailing List <BR>> > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:45
AM<BR>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation
trimming<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > Vicente,<BR>>
> <BR>> > "WC" actually is the short form of "Water
Closet".<BR>> > That's what the early Toilets were
called.<BR>> > <BR>> > Karl G. Mueller<BR>> >
kgamueller@rogers.com<BR>> > <BR>> > ----- Original
Message ----- <BR>> > From: vicenterc@comcast.net <BR>>
> To: adriancwong@earthlink.net ; NSRCA Mailing List <BR>>
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 10:04 PM<BR>> > Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>> >
<BR>> > <BR>> > WC = toilet. I wonder how many went
and check. <BR>> > <BR>> > --<BR>> > Vicente
"Vince" Bortone<BR>> > <BR>> > -------------- Original
message -------------- <BR>> > From:
adriancwong@earthlink.net <BR>> > BODY { FONT-SIZE: 9pt;
COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: <BR>> >
Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff }
<BR>> > body{font-family: <BR>> >
Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:9pt;background-color:
#ffffff;color: <BR>> > black;} "WC", huh? I haven't heard
that word since I've moved back from Hong <BR>> > Kong in
the early 90's. <BR>> > <BR>> > May be I should try
the knife edge on a vertical down line, instead of doing it
<BR>> > horizontally? <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>>
> -----Original Message----- <BR>> > From:
vicenterc@comcast.net <BR>> > Sent: Mar 17, 2008 7:00 PM
<BR>> > To: adriancwong@earthlink.net, NSRCA Mailing List
<BR>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation
trimming <BR>> > <BR>> > That is called Coriolis
accerelation. That is why the water closets flush to <BR>> >
the right in the North hemisphere and to the left in the South
hemisphere <BR>> > (looking the water closet from above). If
going down straight you are close to <BR>> > the ecuator. If
this do not happens as described the water closet needs to be
<BR>> > trimmed. <BR>> > <BR>> > --<BR>> >
Vicente "Vince" Bortone<BR>> > <BR>> > --------------
Original message -------------- <BR>> > From:
adriancwong@earthlink.net <BR>> > I think Bryan is hiding in
his wind tunnel trying to duplicate the same <BR>> >
condition.<BR>> > <BR>> > I don't think it was my
digits. It's probably between the earth's gravitational <BR>>
> pull and soething in the northern hemisphere. I bet the plane
will do the exact <BR>> > opposite if I fly it in Australia
... .-)<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > -----Original
Message----- <BR>> > From: Derek Koopowitz <BR>> >
Sent: Mar 17, 2008 3:36 PM <BR>> > To: NSRCA Mailing List
<BR>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation
trimming <BR>> > <BR>> > I think he wishes it was his
thumbs... :)<BR>> > <BR>> > The push to the belly was
more than the pull to the canopy... the pull was <BR>> >
very slight.<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > On Mon, Mar
17, 2008 at 3:24 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons <BR>> >
wrote:<BR>> > I was going to tell Adrian his thumbs cause
this.. <BR>> > Just kidding of course Adrian..<BR>> >
<BR>> > C <BR>> > <BR>> > Nat Penton
wrote:<BR>> > <BR>> > Where is Bryan when you need him
<BR>> > <BR>> > ----- Original Message ----- <BR>>
> From: <BR>> > To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <BR>> >
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 10:17 PM<BR>> > Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>> > <BR>>
> <BR>> > > Bryan,<BR>> > ><BR>> > >
What cause the plane to pull to the belly on one rudder, and to
the canopy <BR>> > > on the other rudder during knife
edge.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Thx,<BR>> >
><BR>> > > Adrian<BR>> > ><BR>> > >
-----Original Message-----<BR>> > >>From:
shinden1@cox.net<BR>> > >>Sent: Mar 16, 2008 7:17
PM<BR>> > >>To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> >
<BR>> > >>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming<BR>> > >><BR>> >
>>Lance you need to find out exactly where the wing inc .
is.<BR>> > >>I think if you move your c/g back a
little it will help take some of the <BR>> > >>up trim
out But you prob need more pos inc, in the wing so we need to know
<BR>> > >>where you are at right now to determine
exactly where to go<BR>> > >>Bryan<BR>> >
<BR>> > <BR>> > >>---- Lance Van Nostrand
wrote:<BR>> > >>> Bryan,<BR>> >
>>><BR>> > >>> The discussion list moves
faster than I can try this stuff out. Too bad <BR>> >
>>> I<BR>> > >>> have to work...<BR>>
> >>><BR>> > >>> I first only moved my
CG forward significantly and have improved overall<BR>> >
>>> tracking. It was windy Saturday and wind penetration
were good. <BR>> > >>> Bryan's<BR>> >
>>> suggestion was correct on CG movement to make this
improvement. However<BR>> > >>> with the forward CG
(and resultant uptrim) it pulls to the canopy <BR>> >
>>> slightly<BR>> > >>> on downlines. At
this point I noticed that during inverted flight, <BR>> >
>>> rudder<BR>> > >>> input caused a pull
to the belly (plane rose). This was weird. I then<BR>> >
>>> raised the incidence 2 turns and it fixed the
inverted flight problem <BR>> > >>> but it<BR>>
> >>> seemed to make the canopy pul! l worse .
Interestingly, KE flight was not<BR>> > >>>
noticeably affected.<BR>> > >>><BR>> >
>>> The other affect is that inverted 45 downlines drop
toward earth faster <BR>> > >>> than<BR>> >
>>> upright 45s (which track nicely). Before this change,
both 45s were <BR>> > >>> fine.<BR>> >
>>><BR>> > >>> Is this the
expectation?<BR>> > >>><BR>> > >>>
--Lance<BR>> > >>><BR>> > >>>
_______________________________________________<BR>> >
>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> >
>>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>> >
>>>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>>
>
>>_______________________________________________<BR>>
> >>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> >
>>NSRCA-disc! ussion@ l ists.nsrca.org<BR>> >
>>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>>
> ><BR>> > >
_______________________________________________<BR>> > >
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> > >
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>> > >
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>>
> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
_______________________________________________<BR>> >
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> >
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>> >
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>>
> <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
<BR>> > Chris <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
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<BR>> From: krishlan fitzsimmons
<HOMEREMODELING2003@YAHOO.COM><BR>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
<NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>> Date: Tue, 18
Mar 2008 23:24:07 +0000<BR>> <BR>> Ok Bryan, <BR>>
<BR>> Here's how I went out today and man was I suprised, 0
degree down thrust, 0 stab, 3/4 positive in the wing.. Cg forward
where Budd recommends. What a difference.. I had a neutral
elevator for the first time since I owned the plane without
adjusting things.. Uplines were good, downlines pulled to the
canopy still. Horizontal lines, the plane DID feel more locked
into the line.. It's never felt like that.. Mixing, well it still
needed about 15% up mix in knifes, down from 30% though. Inverted
nearly hands off. 45 roll to inverted slowly drops the nose. 45
downs are locked in. Snaps, well they suck for some reason. Not
from this, but when I did cg, and other changes before, I changed
throws cuz the snaps sucked. It took alot more down ele, and
aileron for inverted snaps.. And still, when I start the snap, it
breaks, then slowly gets into the snap, then speeds up too fast
causing an overrotation. Regular snaps are now too fast (easy to
cure though with a different dual rate<BR>> setting). <BR>>
I think my cg could go forward to help with the up ele needed in
knife, and also the pull to canopy on downlines maybe?? Or should
I play with the wing adjusters more?<BR>> <BR>> Thanks,
<BR>> <BR>> Chris<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Nat Penton
<NATPENTON@CENTURYTEL.NET>wrote:<BR>> Wayne<BR>> You missed
the seminar - that was the rest room <G>.<BR>> ----- Original
Message ----- <BR>> From: Wayne Galligan <BR>> To: NSRCA
Mailing List <BR>> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:21
AM<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation
trimming<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> John Crapper was not the
original inventor of the toilet. However Thomas Crapper was one of
the people that was responsible for it popularity. Not to sure
where John L Crapper came from but the original inventor was John
Harington. So maybe that's how the "John" and the "Crapper" have
been come to be known as.<BR>> ----- Original Message -----
<BR>> From: Wayne Galligan <BR>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
<BR>> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:11 AM<BR>> Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> Water Closet (WC) is a toilet that disposes of the waste
by using water to flush it through a drainpipe to another
location. Modern toilets incorporate an 'S' bend; this 'trap'
creates a water seal which remains filled the 'S' bend also
provides siphon action which helps accelerate the flushing
process. Water filling up the bowl creates a high pressure area
which forces the water past the S bend. At the S bend when water
starts to move it creates a vacuum that pulls the water and waste
out of the toilet. When no more water is left then the air stops
the siphon or vacuum process. At that point the water that is
going into the bowl continues to fill up the bowl to equalize the
bowl and the S bend. This ends the cycle of one flush. Since there
were no rooms designated for toilets or crappers as they were
called (named after John L Crapper, inventor of the flush toilet)
the term Water Closet was coined as homes that had the out houses
moved indoors were usually located in<BR>> closets in the
home.<BR>> <BR>> Flush away............<BR>> -----
Original Message ----- <BR>> From: Karl G. Mueller <BR>> To:
NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:45
AM<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation
trimming<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Vicente,<BR>> <BR>> "WC"
actually is the short form of "Water Closet".<BR>> That's what
the early Toilets were called.<BR>> <BR>> Karl G.
Mueller<BR>> kgamueller@rogers.com<BR>> <BR>> -----
Original Message ----- <BR>> From: vicenterc@comcast.net
<BR>> To: adriancwong@earthlink.net ; NSRCA Mailing List
<BR>> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 10:04 PM<BR>> Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> WC = toilet. I wonder how many went and check. <BR>>
<BR>> --<BR>> Vicente "Vince" Bortone<BR>> <BR>>
-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>> From:
adriancwong@earthlink.net <BR>> BODY { FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR:
black; FONT-FAMILY: Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff } body{font-family:
Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:9pt;background-color:
#ffffff;color: black;} "WC", huh? I haven't heard that word since
I've moved back from Hong Kong in the early 90's. <BR>>
<BR>> May be I should try the knife edge on a vertical down
line, instead of doing it horizontally? <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
-----Original Message----- <BR>> From: vicenterc@comcast.net
<BR>> Sent: Mar 17, 2008 7:00 PM <BR>> To:
adriancwong@earthlink.net, NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming <BR>> <BR>>
That is called Coriolis accerelation. That is why the water
closets flush to the right in the North hemisphere and to the left
in the South hemisphere (looking the water closet from above). If
going down straight you are close to the ecuator. If this do not
happens as described the water closet needs to be trimmed.
<BR>> <BR>> --<BR>> Vicente "Vince" Bortone<BR>>
<BR>> -------------- Original message -------------- <BR>>
From: adriancwong@earthlink.net <BR>> I think Bryan is hiding
in his wind tunnel trying to duplicate the same condition.<BR>>
<BR>> I don't think it was my digits. It's probably between the
earth's gravitational pull and soething in the northern
hemisphere. I bet the plane will do the exact opposite if I fly it
in Australia ... .-)<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -----Original
Message----- <BR>> From: Derek Koopowitz <BR>> Sent: Mar 17,
2008 3:36 PM <BR>> To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming <BR>> <BR>> I
think he wishes it was his thumbs... :)<BR>> <BR>> The push
to the belly was more than the pull to the canopy... the pull was
very slight.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at
3:24 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons
<HOMEREMODELING2003@YAHOO.COM>wrote:<BR>> I was going to tell
Adrian his thumbs cause this.. <BR>> Just kidding of course
Adrian..<BR>> <BR>> C <BR>> <BR>> Nat Penton
<NATPENTON@CENTURYTEL.NET>wrote:<BR>> <BR>> Where is Bryan
when you need him <BR>> <BR>> ----- Original Message -----
<BR>> From: <BR>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <BR>> Sent:
Sunday, March 16, 2008 10:17 PM<BR>> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> > Bryan,<BR>> ><BR>> > What cause the
plane to pull to the belly on one rudder, and to the canopy
<BR>> > on the other rudder during knife edge.<BR>>
><BR>> > Thx,<BR>> ><BR>> > Adrian<BR>>
><BR>> > -----Original Message-----<BR>> >>From:
shinden1@cox.net<BR>> >>Sent: Mar 16, 2008 7:17
PM<BR>> >>To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> <BR>>
>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation
trimming<BR>> >><BR>> >>Lance you need to find
out exactly where the wing inc . is.<BR>> >>I think if
you move your c/g back a little it will help take some of the
<BR>> >>up trim out But you prob need more pos inc, in
the wing so we need to know <BR>> >>where you are at
right now to determine exactly where to go<BR>>
>>Bryan<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> >>---- Lance Van
Nostrand wrote:<BR>> >>> Bryan,<BR>>
>>><BR>> >>> The discussion list moves faster
than I can try this stuff out. Too bad <BR>> >>>
I<BR>> >>> have to work...<BR>>
>>><BR>> >>> I first only moved my CG forward
significantly and have improved overall<BR>> >>>
tracking. It was windy Saturday and wind penetration were good.
<BR>> >>> Bryan's<BR>> >>> suggestion was
correct on CG movement to make this improvement. However<BR>>
>>> with the forward CG (and resultant uptrim) it pulls
to the canopy <BR>> >>> slightly<BR>> >>>
on downlines. At this point I noticed that during inverted flight,
<BR>> >>> rudder<BR>> >>> input caused a
pull to the belly (plane rose). This was weird. I then<BR>>
>>> raised the incidence 2 turns and it fixed the
inverted flight problem <BR>> >>> but it<BR>>
>>> seemed to make the canopy pul! l worse .
Interestingly, KE flight was not<BR>> >>> noticeably
affected.<BR>> >>><BR>> >>> The other
affect is that inverted 45 downlines drop toward earth faster
<BR>> >>> than<BR>> >>> upright 45s (which
track nicely). Before this change, both 45s were <BR><BR>===
message truncated ===</BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT face="comic sans ms" color=#0000bf
size=3>Chris </FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
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