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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Vincente</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>What are your knife edge mixes ? Down line Mix ?
Roll mix ?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>What is the reference datum you guys are using for
the Abbra ? Your stab is at - 0.4 ? - where is the thrustline ? wing
incidence
?
Nat</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vicenterc@comcast.net
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 23, 2008 12:54
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Nat,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>What 1/2 T/L means? The stab in my Abbras are fixed at ~0.4
degrees negative. Could be this part of the problem?
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV class=signature id=signature>--<BR>Vicente "Vince" Bortone</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">--------------
Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Nat Penton" <<A
href="mailto:natpenton@centurytel.net">natpenton@centurytel.net</A>> <BR>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The problem with the Abbra is a trim flaw, not
a design flaw.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Your mix switch arrangement is only good to
provide an excuse - you need the KE mix active for rolls, also. Its a
distraction you don't want.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Eliminating the up elevator trim will slightly
increase the up KE mix, not decrease. If you put the wing and TL as I
suggested you will be closer to trim and you may not need to move the
stab.
Nat</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com
href="mailto:homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com">krishlan fitzsimmons</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 23, 2008 10:56
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Nat,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>At this point, I have my mixing on a switch. I have level flight
rudder correction mix on a switch as active, and if I flip it, it goes to
knife mix. Until I get rid of more mix I will continue to use it this way.
</DIV>
<DIV>My stab is adjustable, but it's not easy as I had to make 2
little carbon donuts to go around the front carbon stab tube, and screw it
in with two screws on each side. By elongating the screw holes I
made it adjustable. I have to take the stabs off to do this. </DIV>
<DIV>I'm wondering, will some of the up ele mix in knife go away when i
adjust my stabs to compensate for my up ele trim? </DIV>
<DIV>I'm not sure if it's a design flaw with the Abbra, but it seems as
everyone has about 8 10% up ele mix in their knife's from what I've read
with this ship. I can easily live with it as with the mix, it fly's
knife's the length of the field with ease now. But I'd like to keep on
making adjustments now that I have a good reference point to start from.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks and Happy Easter..</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>C<BR><BR><B><I>Nat Penton <natpenton@centurytel.net></I></B>
wrote:</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>With 10+% KE mix you will get a pitch
change every time you make a heading correction.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com
href="mailto:homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com">krishlan fitzsimmons</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, March 22, 2008
10:30 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>You guys have buttons on your radio??? <IMG
src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/04.gif"> </DIV>
<DIV>I had a bunch of little silver rods sticking out all over mine,
so I broke them all off as they were always getting in the way.. <IMG
src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/11.gif"></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As for tonights session, well very light wind to no wind..
Perfect weather.. 73 degrees, no clouds.. Man I love California for
that.. Oh where was I? </DIV>
<DIV>Well, I added the 1/2 degree of down back as suggested and I
really liked it. I also moved the cg forward, and I really liked that
also. I believe I am more nose heavy than you Vicente, I think it was
a little more than an inch in front of the tube, and definitely more
than Jerry... It flew even better than it did yesterday!! I don't
think it's ever flown this good. I could stop now with the
adjustments, but I think I will move forward and try to get rid of
some more of the up ele mix in knife. I thought I was at around 15%
yesterday, one was 15%, the other side 18%, granted, this is down from
the high 20's.. lol.. Now, I'm at 10% on both sides.. And I'm more
nose heavy than you guys with Abbra's it seems. I like the feel of the
cg.. It feels good where it is.. It is carrying a little up trim in
the ele's still (which I expected with moving the cg forward). So that
tells me I need to go down with the front of the stabs to center them,
but I will wait till I'm done. ! ; Still pulls a hair to the
canopy after about half of the downline. Not much though. Up lines,
and 45's were great.. Inverted 45 drops off as expected. Inverted felt
good with the 5% extra down ele that I added. </DIV>
<DIV>Snaps, well, the positive is good, just fast (which its always
been). The negative, better, still a small hesitation to start,
then speeding up. Rotation stops good, but not great. Now I am no
where near the 18 degrees of aileron throw you recommend Bryan, I am
at 12 degrees at this point. 8 degrees regular. I will add some more
throw for tomorrow's (after the easter bunny) session. </DIV>
<DIV>Move the wings ? Or should I go even more noseheavy to create
more up in the tail, meaning less up in knife? </DIV>
<DIV>When I left the field today, I was shocked with how well it
flew.. Just need to lock in the snaps I think.. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks for the help. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Chris</DIV>
<DIV><BR><B><I>John Pavlick <jpavlick@idseng.com></I></B>
wrote:</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Nat,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> You use the snap buttons? I'm
shocked. :)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John Pavlick<BR><A
href="http://www.idseng.com/">http://www.idseng.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=natpenton@centurytel.net
href="mailto:natpenton@centurytel.net">Nat Penton</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us">NSRCA Mailing List</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, March 22,
2008 4:01 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>1. If there was a way I could
get planform dimensions ( wing and stab only), I could
tell you where to put the CG - and, we could eliminate that
variable</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>2. Use the snap button until you
determine how to trim the snaps. THEN you can fly them.
This CRAP about timing controll inputs is BS,
unnessary, and one of your problems</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I say go back to 3/4 positive on the
wing and 1/2 positive on the T/L. This should eliminate most
of the KE pitch mix and all of the downline
mix. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Is the stab adjustable
?
Nat</FONT></DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
</DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com
href="mailto:homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com">krishlan
fitzsimmons</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us">nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 21,
2008 11:22 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Ok, </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Well, I did feel I was a little tail heavy after thinking,
so I moved my batteries to the forward position and went back to
1/2 degree positive.. What a huge difference that made.. Line's
are better than they have ever been. I've always fought this
plane in the wind, even on horizontal straight flights.. Today,
horizontal lines were hands off.. And it was pretty windy.. Up
lines were much easier to fly. Not sure if it pulls to the
canopy up or down as it was windy. But it held the track better
all the way around. The wind was straight down the runway, and
the plane held it's distance almost by itself. Very little
heading corrections were needed. Before, I've always seemed to
be on the rudder.. Even without wind. I actually left the field
and said, dang, that's the best this plane has ever flown.. Even
told the wife!!<IMG
src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/04.gif"></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Snaps, well that's still the strange thing. Inverted snaps
seem very sluggish, like I break it with down ele, then throw in
the aileron and rudder, and you can see the break, then it
starts to barrel, then it speeds up and can over rotate a little
( I added more aileron throw, and took out some elevator and
rudder, seemed to help a little. Regular snaps are lightning
fast, but they stop when I let go of the sticks. They'd be great
if they weren't so fast. I usually use one dual rate switch
which is for low and high rate. Never needed anything different.
I think I may need to try an inverted snap dual rate and a
regular snap dual rate on different switches. That'll be a fun
one to remember.. lol</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Oh, it carries a little up trim in the ele's now. My knife
up elevator mix of 15% on both sides is still there, but
the roll coupling changed a little.</DIV>
<DIV>I kinda liked how the cg felt, I gave myself 5
percent more down ele so my stick felt the same inverted. Still
I think I'd like to try it a little further forward, but I feel
it would be a mistake. I didn't change motor thrust yet as I
wanted to see the difference of the cg and incidence change
first. I did feel I had too much positive in the wings and that
I was a little tailheavy.. That's why I said the honest setup of
the plane last time.</DIV>
<DIV>So now I am, 0 downthrust, 1/2 pos wings, 0 stab. But it
needs a little up trim. I liked the way it flew, and presented
today (especially in the wind). Just didn't care for the snaps.
</DIV>
<DIV>More tomorrow night if I can get out after the easter egg
hunt, or Sunday after the race..</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Any suggestions?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks, </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Chris<BR><BR><B><I>shinden1@cox.net</I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Chris
sorry I have not got back to you<BR>I see you have 3/4 deg pos
in the wings ,,thats too much! <BR>too much pos inc, will have
the same feeling and response as too much tail weight the
rudder will make the nose pitch down in both normal flying or
knife ,,,and even vertical lines because of the down elevator
needed to trim the model<BR>go to 1/2 pos. on the wings 1/2
deg down thrust ,,<BR>and then move the c/g around till the
left knife has no mix or very little is needed ,,and the
inverted elevator and rolls feel good <BR>every thing else
will fall in place <BR>any time you need up trim with left and
right rudder input your tail heavy ,,or you have too much pos.
inc in the wing <BR>Bryan <BR><BR>---- krishlan fitzsimmons
<HOMEREMODELING2003@YAHOO.COM>wrote: <BR>> Bryan, <BR>>
I was hopeful to hear back from you on this before I made a
change. No worries though, I k! now you are busy, and you've
been a great help with all of us.. <BR>> So if I go cg
forward, I will need less positive in the wings as I wil need
up trim in the ele's, correct? Or should I add 1/2 degree of
down thrust? After seeing my uplines and my horizontal lines,
I don't think I need it. But, what do I know? lol<BR>> I
think the cg forward could help my snaps and my downlines. I
love the way it flys inverted and rolling right now, but I
need to change.. I'll try the cg forward and less positive.
<BR>> <BR>> C<BR>> <BR>> vicenterc@comcast.net
wrote:<BR>> Chris,<BR>> <BR>> Very good information.
How much right thrust? I think you are correct, move the CG a
little more forward. It could help the snaps also.<BR>>
<BR>> --<BR>> Vicente "Vince" Bortone<BR>> <BR>>
-------------- Original message ----------------------<BR>>
From: krishlan fitzsimmons <BR>> > Ok Bryan, <BR>>
> <BR>> > Here's how I went out today and man was! I
supr ised, 0 degree down thrust, 0 <BR>> > stab, 3/4
positive in the wing.. Cg forward where Budd recommends. What
a <BR>> > difference.. I had a neutral elevator for the
first time since I owned the plane <BR>> > without
adjusting things.. Uplines were good, downlines pulled to the
canopy <BR>> > still. Horizontal lines, the plane DID
feel more locked into the line.. It's <BR>> > never felt
like that.. Mixing, well it still needed about 15% up mix in
knifes, <BR>> > down from 30% though. Inverted nearly
hands off. 45 roll to inverted slowly <BR>> > drops the
nose. 45 downs are locked in. Snaps, well they suck for some
reason. w<BR>> > Not from this, but when I did cg, and
other changes before, I changed throws cuz <BR>> > the
snaps sucked. It took alot more down ele, and aileron for
inverted snaps.. <BR>> > And still, when I start the
snap, it breaks, then slowly gets into the snap, <BR>> >
then speeds up too fast! causin g an overrotation. Regular
snaps are now too fast <BR>> > (easy to cure though with
a different dual rate<BR>> > setting). <BR>> > I
think my cg could go forward to help with the up ele needed in
knife, and <BR>> > also the pull to canopy on downlines
maybe?? Or should I play with the wing <BR>> > adjusters
more?<BR>> > <BR>> > Thanks, <BR>> >
<BR>> > Chris<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
Nat Penton wrote:<BR>> > Wayne<BR>> > You missed
the seminar - that was the rest room .<BR>> > -----
Original Message ----- <BR>> > From: Wayne Galligan
<BR>> > To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> > Sent:
Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:21 AM<BR>> > Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>> >
<BR>> > <BR>> > John Crapper was not the original
inventor of the toilet. However Thomas <BR>> > Crapper
was one of the people that was responsible for it popularity.
N! ot to < BR>> > sure where John L Crapper came
from but the original inventor was John <BR>> >
Harington. So maybe that's how the "John" and the "Crapper"
have been come to <BR>> > be known as.<BR>> >
----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > From: Wayne
Galligan <BR>> > To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> >
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:11 AM<BR>> > Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>> >
<BR>> > <BR>> > Water Closet (WC) is a toilet that
disposes of the waste by using water to <BR>> > flush it
through a drainpipe to another location. Modern toilets
incorporate an <BR>> > 'S' bend; this 'trap' creates a
water seal which remains filled the 'S' bend <BR>> >
also provides siphon action which helps accelerate the
flushing process. Water <BR>> > filling up the bowl
creates a high pressure area which forces the water past the
<BR>> > S bend. At the S bend when water starts to move
! it crea tes a vacuum that pulls <BR>> > the water and
waste out of the toilet. When no more water is left then the
air <BR>> > stops the siphon or vacuum process. At that
point the water that is going into <BR>> > the bowl
continues to fill up the bowl to equalize the bowl and the S
bend. This <BR>> > ends the cycle of one flush. Since
there were no rooms designated for toilets <BR>> > or
crappers as they were called (named after John L Crapper,
inventor of the <BR>> > flush toilet) the term Water
Closet was coined as homes that had the out houses <BR>>
> moved indoors were usually located in<BR>> >
closets in the home.<BR>> > <BR>> > Flush
away............<BR>> > ----- Original Message -----
<BR>> > From: Karl G. Mueller <BR>> > To: NSRCA
Mailing List <BR>> > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:45
AM<BR>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation
trimming<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>>! > V
icente,<BR>> > <BR>> > "WC" actually is the short
form of "Water Closet".<BR>> > That's what the early
Toilets were called.<BR>> > <BR>> > Karl G.
Mueller<BR>> > kgamueller@rogers.com<BR>> >
<BR>> > ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > From:
vicenterc@comcast.net <BR>> > To:
adriancwong@earthlink.net ; NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> >
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 10:04 PM<BR>> > Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>> >
<BR>> > <BR>> > WC = toilet. I wonder how many
went and check. <BR>> > <BR>> > --<BR>> >
Vicente "Vince" Bortone<BR>> > <BR>> >
-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>> >
From: adriancwong@earthlink.net <BR>> > BODY {
FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: <BR>> >
Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff }
<BR>> > body{font-family: <BR>> >
Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,! sans-se
rif;font-size:9pt;background-color: #ffffff;color: <BR>>
> black;} "WC", huh? I haven't heard that word since I've
moved back from Hong <BR>> > Kong in the early 90's.
<BR>> > <BR>> > May be I should try the knife edge
on a vertical down line, instead of doing it <BR>> >
horizontally? <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
-----Original Message----- <BR>> > From:
vicenterc@comcast.net <BR>> > Sent: Mar 17, 2008 7:00 PM
<BR>> > To: adriancwong@earthlink.net, NSRCA Mailing
List <BR>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming <BR>> > <BR>> > That is
called Coriolis accerelation. That is why the water closets
flush to <BR>> > the right in the North hemisphere and
to the left in the South hemisphere <BR>> > (looking the
water closet from above). If going down straight you are close
to <BR>> > the ecuator. If this do not happens as
described the water closet needs to be <BR>> &! gt; tri
mmed. <BR>> > <BR>> > --<BR>> > Vicente
"Vince" Bortone<BR>> > <BR>> > --------------
Original message -------------- <BR>> > From:
adriancwong@earthlink.net <BR>> > I think Bryan is
hiding in his wind tunnel trying to duplicate the same
<BR>> > condition.<BR>> > <BR>> > I don't
think it was my digits. It's probably between the earth's
gravitational <BR>> > pull and soething in the northern
hemisphere. I bet the plane will do the exact <BR>> >
opposite if I fly it in Australia ... .-)<BR>> >
<BR>> > <BR>> > -----Original Message-----
<BR>> > From: Derek Koopowitz <BR>> > Sent: Mar
17, 2008 3:36 PM <BR>> > To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming
<BR>> > <BR>> > I think he wishes it was his
thumbs... :)<BR>> > <BR>> > The push to the belly
was more than the pull to the canopy... the pull was <BR>!
> &g t; very slight.<BR>> > <BR>> >
<BR>> > On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 3:24 PM, krishlan
fitzsimmons <BR>> > wrote:<BR>> > I was going to
tell Adrian his thumbs cause this.. <BR>> > Just kidding
of course Adrian..<BR>> > <BR>> > C <BR>> >
<BR>> > Nat Penton wrote:<BR>> > <BR>> >
Where is Bryan when you need him <BR>> > <BR>> >
----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > From: <BR>> >
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <BR>> > Sent: Sunday, March 16,
2008 10:17 PM<BR>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>>
> > Bryan,<BR>> > ><BR>> > > What
cause the plane to pull to the belly on one rudder, and to the
canopy <BR>> > > on the other rudder during knife
edge.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Thx,<BR>> >
><BR>> > > Adrian<BR>> > ><BR>> >
> -----Original Message-----<BR>>! > &
gt;>From: shinden1@cox.net<BR>> > >>Sent: Mar
16, 2008 7:17 PM<BR>> > >>To: NSRCA Mailing List
<BR>> > <BR>> > >>Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>> >
>><BR>> > >>Lance you need to find out
exactly where the wing inc . is.<BR>> > >>I think
if you move your c/g back a little it will help take some of
the <BR>> > >>up trim out But you prob need more
pos inc, in the wing so we need to know <BR>> >
>>where you are at right now to determine exactly where
to go<BR>> > >>Bryan<BR>> > <BR>> >
<BR>> > >>---- Lance Van Nostrand wrote:<BR>>
> >>> Bryan,<BR>> > >>><BR>>
> >>> The discussion list moves faster than I can
try this stuff out. Too bad <BR>> > >>>
I<BR>> > >>> have to work...<BR>> >
>>><BR>> > >>> I first only ! moved m
y CG forward significantly and have improved overall<BR>>
> >>> tracking. It was windy Saturday and wind
penetration were good. <BR>> > >>>
Bryan's<BR>> > >>> suggestion was correct on CG
movement to make this improvement. However<BR>> >
>>> with the forward CG (and resultant uptrim) it
pulls to the canopy <BR>> > >>>
slightly<BR>> > >>> on downlines. At this point
I noticed that during inverted flight, <BR>> >
>>> rudder<BR>> > >>> input caused a
pull to the belly (plane rose). This was weird. I then<BR>>
> >>> raised the incidence 2 turns and it fixed
the inverted flight problem <BR>> > >>> but
it<BR>> > >>> seemed to make the canopy pul! l
worse . Interestingly, KE flight was not<BR>> >
>>> noticeably affected.<BR>> >
>>><BR>> > >>> The other affect is
that inverted! 45 dow nlines drop toward earth faster <BR>>
> >>> than<BR>> > >>> upright 45s
(which track nicely). Before this change, both 45s were
<BR>> > >>> fine.<BR>> >
>>><BR>> > >>> Is this the
expectation?<BR>> > >>><BR>> >
>>> --Lance<BR>> > >>><BR>> >
>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>> >
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http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>>
>
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> <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
<BR>> > Chris <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
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> <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
---------------------------------<BR>> Looking for last
minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo!
Search.<BR>> <BR>> From: krishlan fitzsimmons
<HOMEREMODELING2003@YAHOO.COM><BR>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
<NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>> Date: Tue,
18 Mar 2008 23:24:07 +0000<BR>> <BR>> Ok Bryan, <BR>>
<BR>> Here's how I went out today and man was I suprised,!
0 degr ee down thrust, 0 stab, 3/4 positive in the wing.. Cg
forward where Budd recommends. What a difference.. I had a
neutral elevator for the first time since I owned the plane
without adjusting things.. Uplines were good, downlines pulled
to the canopy still. Horizontal lines, the plane DID feel more
locked into the line.. It's never felt like that.. Mixing,
well it still needed about 15% up mix in knifes, down from 30%
though. Inverted nearly hands off. 45 roll to inverted slowly
drops the nose. 45 downs are locked in. Snaps, well they suck
for some reason. Not from this, but when I did cg, and other
changes before, I changed throws cuz the snaps sucked. It took
alot more down ele, and aileron for inverted snaps.. And
still, when I start the snap, it breaks, then slowly gets into
the snap, then speeds up too fast causing an overrotation.
Regular snaps are now too fast (easy to cure though with a
different dual rate<BR>> setting). <BR>> I think my cg
could go forward to h! elp wit h the up ele needed in knife,
and also the pull to canopy on downlines maybe?? Or should I
play with the wing adjusters more?<BR>> <BR>> Thanks,
<BR>> <BR>> Chris<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Nat Penton
<NATPENTON@CENTURYTEL.NET>wrote:<BR>> Wayne<BR>> You
missed the seminar - that was the rest room <G>.<BR>> -----
Original Message ----- <BR>> From: Wayne Galligan <BR>>
To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008
10:21 AM<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation
trimming<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> John Crapper was not the
original inventor of the toilet. However Thomas Crapper was
one of the people that was responsible for it popularity. Not
to sure where John L Crapper came from but the original
inventor was John Harington. So maybe that's how the "John"
and the "Crapper" have been come to be known as.<BR>> -----
Original Message ----- <BR>> From: Wayne Galligan <BR>>
To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> Sent: Tuesday! , March 18,
2008 10:11 AM<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Water Closet
(WC) is a toilet that disposes of the waste by using water to
flush it through a drainpipe to another location. Modern
toilets incorporate an 'S' bend; this 'trap' creates a water
seal which remains filled the 'S' bend also provides siphon
action which helps accelerate the flushing process. Water
filling up the bowl creates a high pressure area which forces
the water past the S bend. At the S bend when water starts to
move it creates a vacuum that pulls the water and waste out of
the toilet. When no more water is left then the air stops the
siphon or vacuum process. At that point the water that is
going into the bowl continues to fill up the bowl to equalize
the bowl and the S bend. This ends the cycle of one flush.
Since there were no rooms designated for toilets or crappers
as they were called (named after John L Crapper, inventor of
the flush toilet) th! e term Water Closet was coined as homes
that had the out houses moved indoors were usually located
in<BR>> closets in the home.<BR>> <BR>> Flush
away............<BR>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>>
From: Karl G. Mueller <BR>> To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>>
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:45 AM<BR>> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> Vicente,<BR>> <BR>> "WC" actually is the short
form of "Water Closet".<BR>> That's what the early Toilets
were called.<BR>> <BR>> Karl G. Mueller<BR>>
kgamueller@rogers.com<BR>> <BR>> ----- Original Message
----- <BR>> From: vicenterc@comcast.net <BR>> To:
adriancwong@earthlink.net ; NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> Sent:
Monday, March 17, 2008 10:04 PM<BR>> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> WC = toilet. I wonder how many went and check.
<BR>> <BR>> --<BR>> Vicente "Vince" Bortone<BR>>
<BR>> -! ------- ------ Original message --------------
<BR>> From: adriancwong@earthlink.net <BR>> BODY {
FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY:
Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff }
body{font-family:
Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:9pt;background-color:
#ffffff;color: black;} "WC", huh? I haven't heard that word
since I've moved back from Hong Kong in the early 90's.
<BR>> <BR>> May be I should try the knife edge on a
vertical down line, instead of doing it horizontally? <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> -----Original Message----- <BR>> From:
vicenterc@comcast.net <BR>> Sent: Mar 17, 2008 7:00 PM
<BR>> To: adriancwong@earthlink.net, NSRCA Mailing List
<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation
trimming <BR>> <BR>> That is called Coriolis
accerelation. That is why the water closets flush to the right
in the North hemisphere and to the left in the South
hemisphere (looking the water closet from above). If going
down str! aight y ou are close to the ecuator. If this do not
happens as described the water closet needs to be trimmed.
<BR>> <BR>> --<BR>> Vicente "Vince" Bortone<BR>>
<BR>> -------------- Original message --------------
<BR>> From: adriancwong@earthlink.net <BR>> I think
Bryan is hiding in his wind tunnel trying to duplicate the
same condition.<BR>> <BR>> I don't think it was my
digits. It's probably between the earth's gravitational pull
and soething in the northern hemisphere. I bet the plane will
do the exact opposite if I fly it in Australia ... .-)<BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> -----Original Message----- <BR>> From:
Derek Koopowitz <BR>> Sent: Mar 17, 2008 3:36 PM <BR>>
To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming <BR>> <BR>> I
think he wishes it was his thumbs... :)<BR>> <BR>> The
push to the belly was more than the pull to the canopy... the
pull was very slight.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> On Mon, Ma! r
17, 2 008 at 3:24 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons
<HOMEREMODELING2003@YAHOO.COM>wrote:<BR>> I was going to
tell Adrian his thumbs cause this.. <BR>> Just kidding of
course Adrian..<BR>> <BR>> C <BR>> <BR>> Nat
Penton <NATPENTON@CENTURYTEL.NET>wrote:<BR>> <BR>> Where
is Bryan when you need him <BR>> <BR>> ----- Original
Message ----- <BR>> From: <BR>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List"
<BR>> Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 10:17 PM<BR>>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> > Bryan,<BR>> ><BR>> > What
cause the plane to pull to the belly on one rudder, and to the
canopy <BR>> > on the other rudder during knife
edge.<BR>> ><BR>> > Thx,<BR>> ><BR>> >
Adrian<BR>> ><BR>> > -----Original
Message-----<BR>> >>From: shinden1@cox.net<BR>>
>>Sent: Mar 16, 2008 7:17 PM<BR>> >>To: NSRCA
Mailing List <BR>> <BR>> >>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-di!
scussio n] triangulation trimming<BR>> >><BR>>
>>Lance you need to find out exactly where the wing inc
. is.<BR>> >>I think if you move your c/g back a
little it will help take some of the <BR>> >>up trim
out But you prob need more pos inc, in the wing so we need to
know <BR>> >>where you are at right now to determine
exactly where to go<BR>> >>Bryan<BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> >>---- Lance Van Nostrand wrote:<BR>>
>>> Bryan,<BR>> >>><BR>> >>>
The discussion list moves faster than I can try this stuff
out. Too bad <BR>> >>> I<BR>> >>> have
to work...<BR>> >>><BR>> >>> I first
only moved my CG forward significantly and have improved
overall<BR>> >>> tracking. It was windy Saturday
and wind penetration were good. <BR>> >>>
Bryan's<BR>> >>> suggestion was correct on CG
movement to make this improvement. However! <BR>> ;
>>> with the forward CG (and resultant uptrim) it
pulls to the canopy <BR>> >>> slightly<BR>>
>>> on downlines. At this point I noticed that during
inverted flight, <BR>> >>> rudder<BR>>
>>> input caused a pull to the belly (plane rose).
This was weird. I then<BR>> >>> raised the
incidence 2 turns and it fixed the inverted flight problem
<BR>> >>> but it<BR>> >>> seemed to
make the canopy pul! l worse . Interestingly, KE flight was
not<BR>> >>> noticeably affected.<BR>>
>>><BR>> >>> The other affect is that
inverted 45 downlines drop toward earth faster <BR>>
>>> than<BR>> >>> upright 45s (which
track nicely). Before this change, both 45s were <BR><BR>===
message truncated ===</BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT face="comic sans ms" color=#0000bf
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