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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Aha! See what happens if you're not careful? Now I
might actually use those silly snap switches. Seriously, I've never used them.
It's true that it happens so fast you might not be able to see what's going on
but I know when I added too much of something. Maybe it's just me. I guess as
long as the judges don't see it everything is OK.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John Pavlick<BR><A
href="http://www.idseng.com">http://www.idseng.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=natpenton@centurytel.net href="mailto:natpenton@centurytel.net">Nat
Penton</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, March 22, 2008 9:19
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Don't tell - I intended for that message to
be off line ! Using the snap button is an approach to determine what
is needed. After you can be a real hero <G> if you have the
need. Timing of the throws is a psycological need, not
aerodynamic.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I believe the full scale rules say you initiate
all axis simaltaneously. Now see, you've already made me misspell a word
( or two
).
Nat</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jpavlick@idseng.com href="mailto:jpavlick@idseng.com">John
Pavlick</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, March 22, 2008 5:34
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Nat,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> You use the snap buttons? I'm shocked.
:)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John Pavlick<BR><A
href="http://www.idseng.com">http://www.idseng.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=natpenton@centurytel.net
href="mailto:natpenton@centurytel.net">Nat Penton</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, March 22, 2008 4:01
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>1. If there was a way I could get
planform dimensions ( wing and stab only), I could tell you
where to put the CG - and, we could eliminate that variable</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>2. Use the snap button until you determine
how to trim the snaps. THEN you can fly them. This CRAP about timing
controll inputs is BS, unnessary, and one of your
problems</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I say go back to 3/4 positive on the wing and
1/2 positive on the T/L. This should eliminate most of the KE pitch
mix and all of the downline
mix. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Is the stab adjustable
?
Nat</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com
href="mailto:homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com">krishlan fitzsimmons</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us">nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 21, 2008 11:22
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Ok, </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Well, I did feel I was a little tail heavy after thinking, so I
moved my batteries to the forward position and went back to 1/2 degree
positive.. What a huge difference that made.. Line's are better than
they have ever been. I've always fought this plane in the wind, even on
horizontal straight flights.. Today, horizontal lines were hands off..
And it was pretty windy.. Up lines were much easier to fly. Not sure if
it pulls to the canopy up or down as it was windy. But it held the track
better all the way around. The wind was straight down the runway, and
the plane held it's distance almost by itself. Very little heading
corrections were needed. Before, I've always seemed to be on the
rudder.. Even without wind. I actually left the field and said, dang,
that's the best this plane has ever flown.. Even told the wife!!<IMG
src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/04.gif"></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Snaps, well that's still the strange thing. Inverted snaps seem
very sluggish, like I break it with down ele, then throw in the aileron
and rudder, and you can see the break, then it starts to barrel, then it
speeds up and can over rotate a little ( I added more aileron throw, and
took out some elevator and rudder, seemed to help a little. Regular
snaps are lightning fast, but they stop when I let go of the sticks.
They'd be great if they weren't so fast. I usually use one dual rate
switch which is for low and high rate. Never needed anything different.
I think I may need to try an inverted snap dual rate and a regular snap
dual rate on different switches. That'll be a fun one to remember..
lol</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Oh, it carries a little up trim in the ele's now. My knife
up elevator mix of 15% on both sides is still there, but the roll
coupling changed a little.</DIV>
<DIV>I kinda liked how the cg felt, I gave myself 5 percent more
down ele so my stick felt the same inverted. Still I think I'd like to
try it a little further forward, but I feel it would be a mistake. I
didn't change motor thrust yet as I wanted to see the difference of the
cg and incidence change first. I did feel I had too much positive in the
wings and that I was a little tailheavy.. That's why I said the honest
setup of the plane last time.</DIV>
<DIV>So now I am, 0 downthrust, 1/2 pos wings, 0 stab. But it needs a
little up trim. I liked the way it flew, and presented today (especially
in the wind). Just didn't care for the snaps. </DIV>
<DIV>More tomorrow night if I can get out after the easter egg hunt, or
Sunday after the race..</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Any suggestions?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks, </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Chris<BR><BR><B><I>shinden1@cox.net</I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Chris
sorry I have not got back to you<BR>I see you have 3/4 deg pos in the
wings ,,thats too much! <BR>too much pos inc, will have the same
feeling and response as too much tail weight the rudder will make the
nose pitch down in both normal flying or knife ,,,and even vertical
lines because of the down elevator needed to trim the model<BR>go to
1/2 pos. on the wings 1/2 deg down thrust ,,<BR>and then move the c/g
around till the left knife has no mix or very little is needed ,,and
the inverted elevator and rolls feel good <BR>every thing else will
fall in place <BR>any time you need up trim with left and right rudder
input your tail heavy ,,or you have too much pos. inc in the wing
<BR>Bryan <BR><BR>---- krishlan fitzsimmons
<HOMEREMODELING2003@YAHOO.COM>wrote: <BR>> Bryan, <BR>> I was
hopeful to hear back from you on this before I made a change. No
worries though, I know you are busy, and you've been a great help with
all of us.. <BR>> So if I go cg forward, I will need less positive
in the wings as I wil need up trim in the ele's, correct? Or should I
add 1/2 degree of down thrust? After seeing my uplines and my
horizontal lines, I don't think I need it. But, what do I know?
lol<BR>> I think the cg forward could help my snaps and my
downlines. I love the way it flys inverted and rolling right now, but
I need to change.. I'll try the cg forward and less positive. <BR>>
<BR>> C<BR>> <BR>> vicenterc@comcast.net wrote:<BR>>
Chris,<BR>> <BR>> Very good information. How much right thrust?
I think you are correct, move the CG a little more forward. It could
help the snaps also.<BR>> <BR>> --<BR>> Vicente "Vince"
Bortone<BR>> <BR>> -------------- Original message
----------------------<BR>> From: krishlan fitzsimmons <BR>>
> Ok Bryan, <BR>> > <BR>> > Here's how I went out today
and man was I suprised, 0 degree down thrust, 0 <BR>> > stab,
3/4 positive in the wing.. Cg forward where Budd recommends. What a
<BR>> > difference.. I had a neutral elevator for the first time
since I owned the plane <BR>> > without adjusting things..
Uplines were good, downlines pulled to the canopy <BR>> > still.
Horizontal lines, the plane DID feel more locked into the line.. It's
<BR>> > never felt like that.. Mixing, well it still needed
about 15% up mix in knifes, <BR>> > down from 30% though.
Inverted nearly hands off. 45 roll to inverted slowly <BR>> >
drops the nose. 45 downs are locked in. Snaps, well they suck for some
reason. w<BR>> > Not from this, but when I did cg, and other
changes before, I changed throws cuz <BR>> > the snaps sucked.
It took alot more down ele, and aileron for inverted snaps.. <BR>>
> And still, when I start the snap, it breaks, then slowly gets
into the snap, <BR>> > then speeds up too fast causing an
overrotation. Regular snaps are now too fast <BR>> > (easy to
cure though with a different dual rate<BR>> > setting). <BR>>
> I think my cg could go forward to help with the up ele needed in
knife, and <BR>> > also the pull to canopy on downlines maybe??
Or should I play with the wing <BR>> > adjusters more?<BR>>
> <BR>> > Thanks, <BR>> > <BR>> > Chris<BR>>
> <BR>> > <BR>> > Nat Penton wrote:<BR>> >
Wayne<BR>> > You missed the seminar - that was the rest room
.<BR>> > ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > From: Wayne
Galligan <BR>> > To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> > Sent:
Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:21 AM<BR>> > Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>> > <BR>> >
<BR>> > John Crapper was not the original inventor of the
toilet. However Thomas <BR>> > Crapper was one of the people
that was responsible for it popularity. Not to <BR>> > sure
where John L Crapper came from but the original inventor was John
<BR>> > Harington. So maybe that's how the "John" and the
"Crapper" have been come to <BR>> > be known as.<BR>> >
----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > From: Wayne Galligan
<BR>> > To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> > Sent: Tuesday,
March 18, 2008 10:11 AM<BR>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > Water
Closet (WC) is a toilet that disposes of the waste by using water to
<BR>> > flush it through a drainpipe to another location. Modern
toilets incorporate an <BR>> > 'S' bend; this 'trap' creates a
water seal which remains filled the 'S' bend <BR>> > also
provides siphon action which helps accelerate the flushing process.
Water <BR>> > filling up the bowl creates a high pressure area
which forces the water past the <BR>> > S bend. At the S bend
when water starts to move it creates a vacuum that pulls <BR>> >
the water and waste out of the toilet. When no more water is left then
the air <BR>> > stops the siphon or vacuum process. At that
point the water that is going into <BR>> > the bowl continues to
fill up the bowl to equalize the bowl and the S bend. This <BR>>
> ends the cycle of one flush. Since there were no rooms designated
for toilets <BR>> > or crappers as they were called (named after
John L Crapper, inventor of the <BR>> > flush toilet) the term
Water Closet was coined as homes that had the out houses <BR>> >
moved indoors were usually located in<BR>> > closets in the
home.<BR>> > <BR>> > Flush away............<BR>> >
----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > From: Karl G. Mueller
<BR>> > To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> > Sent: Tuesday,
March 18, 2008 10:45 AM<BR>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
Vicente,<BR>> > <BR>> > "WC" actually is the short form of
"Water Closet".<BR>> > That's what the early Toilets were
called.<BR>> > <BR>> > Karl G. Mueller<BR>> >
kgamueller@rogers.com<BR>> > <BR>> > ----- Original
Message ----- <BR>> > From: vicenterc@comcast.net <BR>> >
To: adriancwong@earthlink.net ; NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> > Sent:
Monday, March 17, 2008 10:04 PM<BR>> > Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>> > <BR>> >
<BR>> > WC = toilet. I wonder how many went and check. <BR>>
> <BR>> > --<BR>> > Vicente "Vince" Bortone<BR>>
> <BR>> > -------------- Original message --------------
<BR>> > From: adriancwong@earthlink.net <BR>> > BODY {
FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: <BR>> >
Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff }
<BR>> > body{font-family: <BR>> >
Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:9pt;background-color:
#ffffff;color: <BR>> > black;} "WC", huh? I haven't heard that
word since I've moved back from Hong <BR>> > Kong in the early
90's. <BR>> > <BR>> > May be I should try the knife edge
on a vertical down line, instead of doing it <BR>> >
horizontally? <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > -----Original
Message----- <BR>> > From: vicenterc@comcast.net <BR>> >
Sent: Mar 17, 2008 7:00 PM <BR>> > To:
adriancwong@earthlink.net, NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> > Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming <BR>> > <BR>>
> That is called Coriolis accerelation. That is why the water
closets flush to <BR>> > the right in the North hemisphere and
to the left in the South hemisphere <BR>> > (looking the water
closet from above). If going down straight you are close to <BR>>
> the ecuator. If this do not happens as described the water closet
needs to be <BR>> > trimmed. <BR>> > <BR>> >
--<BR>> > Vicente "Vince" Bortone<BR>> > <BR>> >
-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>> > From:
adriancwong@earthlink.net <BR>> > I think Bryan is hiding in his
wind tunnel trying to duplicate the same <BR>> >
condition.<BR>> > <BR>> > I don't think it was my digits.
It's probably between the earth's gravitational <BR>> > pull and
soething in the northern hemisphere. I bet the plane will do the exact
<BR>> > opposite if I fly it in Australia ... .-)<BR>> >
<BR>> > <BR>> > -----Original Message----- <BR>> >
From: Derek Koopowitz <BR>> > Sent: Mar 17, 2008 3:36 PM
<BR>> > To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> > Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming <BR>> > <BR>> >
I think he wishes it was his thumbs... :)<BR>> > <BR>> >
The push to the belly was more than the pull to the canopy... the pull
was <BR>> > very slight.<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>>
> On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 3:24 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons <BR>>
> wrote:<BR>> > I was going to tell Adrian his thumbs cause
this.. <BR>> > Just kidding of course Adrian..<BR>> >
<BR>> > C <BR>> > <BR>> > Nat Penton wrote:<BR>>
> <BR>> > Where is Bryan when you need him <BR>> >
<BR>> > ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > From:
<BR>> > To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <BR>> > Sent: Sunday,
March 16, 2008 10:17 PM<BR>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > >
Bryan,<BR>> > ><BR>> > > What cause the plane to
pull to the belly on one rudder, and to the canopy <BR>> > >
on the other rudder during knife edge.<BR>> > ><BR>> >
> Thx,<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Adrian<BR>> >
><BR>> > > -----Original Message-----<BR>> >
>>From: shinden1@cox.net<BR>> > >>Sent: Mar 16, 2008
7:17 PM<BR>> > >>To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> >
<BR>> > >>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation
trimming<BR>> > >><BR>> > >>Lance you need to
find out exactly where the wing inc . is.<BR>> > >>I think
if you move your c/g back a little it will help take some of the
<BR>> > >>up trim out But you prob need more pos inc, in
the wing so we need to know <BR>> > >>where you are at
right now to determine exactly where to go<BR>> >
>>Bryan<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > >>----
Lance Van Nostrand wrote:<BR>> > >>> Bryan,<BR>>
> >>><BR>> > >>> The discussion list moves
faster than I can try this stuff out. Too bad <BR>> >
>>> I<BR>> > >>> have to work...<BR>> >
>>><BR>> > >>> I first only moved my CG
forward significantly and have improved overall<BR>> >
>>> tracking. It was windy Saturday and wind penetration were
good. <BR>> > >>> Bryan's<BR>> > >>>
suggestion was correct on CG movement to make this improvement.
However<BR>> > >>> with the forward CG (and resultant
uptrim) it pulls to the canopy <BR>> > >>>
slightly<BR>> > >>> on downlines. At this point I
noticed that during inverted flight, <BR>> > >>>
rudder<BR>> > >>> input caused a pull to the belly
(plane rose). This was weird. I then<BR>> > >>> raised
the incidence 2 turns and it fixed the inverted flight problem
<BR>> > >>> but it<BR>> > >>> seemed to
make the canopy pul! l worse . Interestingly, KE flight was
not<BR>> > >>> noticeably affected.<BR>> >
>>><BR>> > >>> The other affect is that
inverted 45 downlines drop toward earth faster <BR>> >
>>> than<BR>> > >>> upright 45s (which track
nicely). Before this change, both 45s were <BR>> > >>>
fine.<BR>> > >>><BR>> > >>> Is this the
expectation?<BR>> > >>><BR>> > >>>
--Lance<BR>> > >>><BR>> > >>>
_______________________________________________<BR>> >
>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> > >>>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>> > >>>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>> >
>>_______________________________________________<BR>> >
>>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> > >>NSRCA-disc!
ussion@ l ists.nsrca.org<BR>> >
>>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>>
> ><BR>> > >
_______________________________________________<BR>> > >
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> <BR>> > <BR>> >
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<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
Chris <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>>
> <BR>> > ---------------------------------<BR>> > Be a
better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it
now. <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
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---------------------------------<BR>> > <BR>> >
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<BR>> > <BR>> > Chris <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>>
> <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
---------------------------------<BR>> Looking for last minute
shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.<BR>> <BR>>
From: krishlan fitzsimmons <HOMEREMODELING2003@YAHOO.COM><BR>> To:
NSRCA Mailing List <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.NSRCA.ORG><BR>> Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>> Date: Tue, 18
Mar 2008 23:24:07 +0000<BR>> <BR>> Ok Bryan, <BR>> <BR>>
Here's how I went out today and man was I suprised, 0 degree down
thrust, 0 stab, 3/4 positive in the wing.. Cg forward where Budd
recommends. What a difference.. I had a neutral elevator for the first
time since I owned the plane without adjusting things.. Uplines were
good, downlines pulled to the canopy still. Horizontal lines, the
plane DID feel more locked into the line.. It's never felt like that..
Mixing, well it still needed about 15% up mix in knifes, down from 30%
though. Inverted nearly hands off. 45 roll to inverted slowly drops
the nose. 45 downs are locked in. Snaps, well they suck for some
reason. Not from this, but when I did cg, and other changes before, I
changed throws cuz the snaps sucked. It took alot more down ele, and
aileron for inverted snaps.. And still, when I start the snap, it
breaks, then slowly gets into the snap, then speeds up too fast
causing an overrotation. Regular snaps are now too fast (easy to cure
though with a different dual rate<BR>> setting). <BR>> I think
my cg could go forward to help with the up ele needed in knife, and
also the pull to canopy on downlines maybe?? Or should I play with the
wing adjusters more?<BR>> <BR>> Thanks, <BR>> <BR>>
Chris<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Nat Penton
<NATPENTON@CENTURYTEL.NET>wrote:<BR>> Wayne<BR>> You missed the
seminar - that was the rest room <G>.<BR>> ----- Original Message
----- <BR>> From: Wayne Galligan <BR>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
<BR>> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:21 AM<BR>> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
John Crapper was not the original inventor of the toilet. However
Thomas Crapper was one of the people that was responsible for it
popularity. Not to sure where John L Crapper came from but the
original inventor was John Harington. So maybe that's how the "John"
and the "Crapper" have been come to be known as.<BR>> -----
Original Message ----- <BR>> From: Wayne Galligan <BR>> To:
NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:11
AM<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation
trimming<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Water Closet (WC) is a toilet that
disposes of the waste by using water to flush it through a drainpipe
to another location. Modern toilets incorporate an 'S' bend; this
'trap' creates a water seal which remains filled the 'S' bend also
provides siphon action which helps accelerate the flushing process.
Water filling up the bowl creates a high pressure area which forces
the water past the S bend. At the S bend when water starts to move it
creates a vacuum that pulls the water and waste out of the toilet.
When no more water is left then the air stops the siphon or vacuum
process. At that point the water that is going into the bowl continues
to fill up the bowl to equalize the bowl and the S bend. This ends the
cycle of one flush. Since there were no rooms designated for toilets
or crappers as they were called (named after John L Crapper, inventor
of the flush toilet) the term Water Closet was coined as homes that
had the out houses moved indoors were usually located in<BR>>
closets in the home.<BR>> <BR>> Flush away............<BR>>
----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: Karl G. Mueller <BR>>
To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 10:45
AM<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation
trimming<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Vicente,<BR>> <BR>> "WC"
actually is the short form of "Water Closet".<BR>> That's what the
early Toilets were called.<BR>> <BR>> Karl G. Mueller<BR>>
kgamueller@rogers.com<BR>> <BR>> ----- Original Message -----
<BR>> From: vicenterc@comcast.net <BR>> To:
adriancwong@earthlink.net ; NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> Sent: Monday,
March 17, 2008 10:04 PM<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> WC = toilet. I wonder
how many went and check. <BR>> <BR>> --<BR>> Vicente "Vince"
Bortone<BR>> <BR>> -------------- Original message
-------------- <BR>> From: adriancwong@earthlink.net <BR>> BODY
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body{font-family:
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#ffffff;color: black;} "WC", huh? I haven't heard that word since I've
moved back from Hong Kong in the early 90's. <BR>> <BR>> May be
I should try the knife edge on a vertical down line, instead of doing
it horizontally? <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -----Original Message-----
<BR>> From: vicenterc@comcast.net <BR>> Sent: Mar 17, 2008 7:00
PM <BR>> To: adriancwong@earthlink.net, NSRCA Mailing List <BR>>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming <BR>>
<BR>> That is called Coriolis accerelation. That is why the water
closets flush to the right in the North hemisphere and to the left in
the South hemisphere (looking the water closet from above). If going
down straight you are close to the ecuator. If this do not happens as
described the water closet needs to be trimmed. <BR>> <BR>>
--<BR>> Vicente "Vince" Bortone<BR>> <BR>> --------------
Original message -------------- <BR>> From:
adriancwong@earthlink.net <BR>> I think Bryan is hiding in his wind
tunnel trying to duplicate the same condition.<BR>> <BR>> I
don't think it was my digits. It's probably between the earth's
gravitational pull and soething in the northern hemisphere. I bet the
plane will do the exact opposite if I fly it in Australia ...
.-)<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -----Original Message----- <BR>>
From: Derek Koopowitz <BR>> Sent: Mar 17, 2008 3:36 PM <BR>> To:
NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming <BR>> <BR>> I think he wishes it was his
thumbs... :)<BR>> <BR>> The push to the belly was more than the
pull to the canopy... the pull was very slight.<BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 3:24 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons
<HOMEREMODELING2003@YAHOO.COM>wrote:<BR>> I was going to tell
Adrian his thumbs cause this.. <BR>> Just kidding of course
Adrian..<BR>> <BR>> C <BR>> <BR>> Nat Penton
<NATPENTON@CENTURYTEL.NET>wrote:<BR>> <BR>> Where is Bryan when
you need him <BR>> <BR>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>>
From: <BR>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <BR>> Sent: Sunday, March
16, 2008 10:17 PM<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
triangulation trimming<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> > Bryan,<BR>>
><BR>> > What cause the plane to pull to the belly on one
rudder, and to the canopy <BR>> > on the other rudder during
knife edge.<BR>> ><BR>> > Thx,<BR>> ><BR>> >
Adrian<BR>> ><BR>> > -----Original Message-----<BR>>
>>From: shinden1@cox.net<BR>> >>Sent: Mar 16, 2008 7:17
PM<BR>> >>To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> <BR>>
>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] triangulation trimming<BR>>
>><BR>> >>Lance you need to find out exactly where the
wing inc . is.<BR>> >>I think if you move your c/g back a
little it will help take some of the <BR>> >>up trim out But
you prob need more pos inc, in the wing so we need to know <BR>>
>>where you are at right now to determine exactly where to
go<BR>> >>Bryan<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> >>---- Lance
Van Nostrand wrote:<BR>> >>> Bryan,<BR>>
>>><BR>> >>> The discussion list moves faster
than I can try this stuff out. Too bad <BR>> >>> I<BR>>
>>> have to work...<BR>> >>><BR>> >>>
I first only moved my CG forward significantly and have improved
overall<BR>> >>> tracking. It was windy Saturday and wind
penetration were good. <BR>> >>> Bryan's<BR>>
>>> suggestion was correct on CG movement to make this
improvement. However<BR>> >>> with the forward CG (and
resultant uptrim) it pulls to the canopy <BR>> >>>
slightly<BR>> >>> on downlines. At this point I noticed
that during inverted flight, <BR>> >>> rudder<BR>>
>>> input caused a pull to the belly (plane rose). This was
weird. I then<BR>> >>> raised the incidence 2 turns and it
fixed the inverted flight problem <BR>> >>> but it<BR>>
>>> seemed to make the canopy pul! l worse . Interestingly,
KE flight was not<BR>> >>> noticeably affected.<BR>>
>>><BR>> >>> The other affect is that inverted 45
downlines drop toward earth faster <BR>> >>> than<BR>>
>>> upright 45s (which track nicely). Before this change,
both 45s were <BR><BR>=== message truncated ===</BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT face="comic sans ms" color=#0000bf size=3>Chris
</FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV>
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