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<DIV>Ron, did you publish the schematics for this device or was I just not
paying attention? I have some older TP5300s with over 200 flights I would
love to compare with newer cells.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>thanks</DIV>
<DIV>Don</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 3/15/2008 9:28:21 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
vanputte@cox.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>That's
true, you do need to know the current. I should have said <BR>that
you don't need to measure it. Most people who have an
<BR>inexpensive digital multimeter have one that measures voltage, not
<BR>current. Using a precision resistor allows the determination of
the <BR>current with an inexpensive multimeter.<BR><BR>Ron Van
Putte<BR><BR>On Mar 15, 2008, at 11:17 PM, Gordon Anderson wrote:<BR><BR>>
In general you do need to know the current. The fact is measuring
<BR>> voltage across<BR>> know resistance is measuring current. i.e. 1
Volt across a 1 ohm <BR>> resistor is 1<BR>> amp. So using known
resistance and making voltage measurements will <BR>> allow
the<BR>> measurement.<BR>><BR>> --Gordon<BR>><BR>>
-----Original Message-----<BR>> From:
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us<BR>>
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us] On Behalf Of Ron Van
<BR>> Putte<BR>> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 9:06 PM<BR>> To:
NSRCA Mailing List<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Internal battery
impedance<BR>><BR>> You don't need to know the current. Knowing
voltage and resistance <BR>> is enough.<BR>> It is very simple and
just as you described, It does require <BR>> precision<BR>>
resistors.<BR>><BR>> Ron Van Putte<BR>><BR>><BR>> On Mar 15,
2008, at 10:44 PM, Lance Van Nostrand wrote:<BR>><BR>>> This sounds
like a way to do each cell, but don't you need the<BR>>> current?
If one were to measure the voltage across the battery and<BR>>> the
current through any resistor whose Ohmage is known then V=I *
<BR>>> (R +<BR>>> internal resistance). or is this just too
naive.<BR>>> --Lance<BR>>><BR>>> ----- Original Message
-----<BR>>> From: "Ron Van Putte" <vanputte@cox.net><BR>>>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>>>
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 8:40 AM<BR>>> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Internal battery
impedance<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>> I'd forgotten Earl had the
plans.<BR>>>><BR>>>> The Lipo Doc is a very simple device
that is mostly a rotary switch<BR>>>> and a couple of precision
resistors. You measure voltage on the<BR>>>> cells of a lithium
polymer battery in an unloaded condition, with a<BR>>>> 10 ohm load
and a 1 ohm load. The results are put in a spreadsheet<BR>>>>
and the internal resistance of each cell is
determined.<BR>>>><BR>>>> Ron Van
Putte<BR>>>><BR>>>> On Mar 15, 2008, at 5:25 AM, Earl Haury
wrote:<BR>>>><BR>>>>>
Lance<BR>>>>><BR>>>>> I use the "LiPo Doc" built from
plans I got from RVP.<BR>>>>><BR>>>>>
Earl<BR>>>>> ----- Original Message -----<BR>>>>>
From: "Lance Van Nostrand" <patterndude@tx.rr.com><BR>>>>>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>>>>> Sent: Friday,
March 14, 2008 11:23 PM<BR>>>>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion]
Internal battery
impedance<BR>>>>><BR>>>>><BR>>>>>>
Earl,<BR>>>>>> How do you measure the battery
impedance?<BR>>>>>>
--Lance<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>> ----- Original Message
-----<BR>>>>>> From: "Earl Haury"
<ejhaury@comcast.net><BR>>>>>> To:
<chad@f3acanada.org>; "NSRCA Mailing List"<BR>>>>>>
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>>>>>> Sent: Friday,
March 14, 2008 10:10 AM<BR>>>>>> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion]
Batteries<BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>
Chad, you have a point, however it's important to factor in
that<BR>>>>>>> the 1P packs are also generally higher C
rating. My view when<BR>>>>>>> considering batteries
initially was that higher cell count<BR>>>>>>> provided more
failure opportunities, both as individual cell<BR>>>>>>>
failure and connections. I've disassembled a number of
"failed",<BR>>>>>>> or no longer pattern suitable packs, and
measured individual cell<BR>>>>>>>
characteristics.<BR>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>
Generally, the cells in a lower C pack tend demonstrate
an<BR>>>>>>> increase in impedance, resulting in lower
voltage output for a<BR>>>>>>> given current draw over their
lifespan until no longer "pattern<BR>>>>>>> viable". During
this time capacity diminishes - but most cells<BR>>>>>>>
with high impedance will still retain<BR>>>>>>> 80+%
of<BR>>>>>>> their original capacity. Even though these
things generate more<BR>>>>>>> heat than the higher C packs
- they tend to handle abuse (as<BR>>>>>>> you've found)
partly because of the retained capacity and partly<BR>>>>>>>
because of "performance limiting" impedance. Post flight
<BR>>>>>>> imbalance<BR>>>>>>> doesn't
change too much as these packs age - suggesting a
similar<BR>>>>>>> "aging" of the individual
cells.<BR>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>> Conversely, the
high C packs demonstrate very low impedance<BR>>>>>>>
initially and that appears to be retained throughout their
life.<BR>>>>>>> However, the cell capacity appears to drop
pretty early and<BR>>>>>>> continue to do so over the pack
life. I've measured some of these<BR>>>>>>> with an average
capacity loss of 40% after 50 flights - that
<BR>>>>>>> means<BR>>>>>>> a 5000 mAh pack
is now a 3000 mAh pack.<BR>>>>>>>
Even<BR>>>>>>> worse -<BR>>>>>>> there is
often a good deal of variance from cell to cell.
Their<BR>>>>>>> low impedance will provide little warning
(as loss of power) <BR>>>>>>>
until<BR>>>>>>> a cell is injured, real easy to do if you
try to take 3500 mAh<BR>>>>>>> from the now 3000
pack.<BR>>>>>>> Often one will notice the post flight
imbalance increasing as<BR>>>>>>> these packs age and it
will be greater at higher depths of<BR>>>>>>> discharge - a
sure sign some cells are getting weak. OTOH - for<BR>>>>>>>
blazing power the high C packs are the way to go - but there's
a<BR>>>>>>> price to pay in life, weight, &
$$.<BR>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>> These observations
have led me to surmise that a pack with a high<BR>>>>>>>
enough C rating to minimize impedance losses (and
accompanying<BR>>>>>>> heat) and a low enough C rating to
allow good capacity retention<BR>>>>>>> should provide the
best value for pattern. I have no idea just<BR>>>>>>> what
construction parameters / chemistry defines these<BR>>>>>>>
characteristics. I chose to try the FlightPower F3A packs
because<BR>>>>>>> they are mid-C rating and 5350 mAh
capacity. So far they provide<BR>>>>>>> good power and
generate no more heat than the high C packs I've<BR>>>>>>>
used. I expect that the extra capacity (above 5000) offers
a<BR>>>>>>> little buffer if there is a capacity decline
over their life. I<BR>>>>>>> see little balancer activity
with these packs regardless of depth<BR>>>>>>> of discharge
(say 3000 mAh vs 4000 +) so far, time will tell -<BR>>>>>>>
we're all still
learning.<BR>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>
Earl<BR>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>> Team
FlightPower<BR>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>
----- Original Message -----<BR>>>>>>> From: "Chad
Northeast" <chad@f3acanada.org><BR>>>>>>> To: "NSRCA
Mailing List"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>>>>>>> Sent:
Friday, March 14, 2008 8:22 AM<BR>>>>>>> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion]
Batteries<BR>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>>
I think a huge part of the 5300 Prolites ability to deliver
<BR>>>>>>>> under<BR>>>>>>>> extreme
abuse (I should know! :) ) is in large part due to a
4p<BR>>>>>>>> config rather than 1p as in the current
packs. In a 1p when <BR>>>>>>>>
that<BR>>>>>>>> cell gets weak its over, in a 4p when a
cell gets weak the other<BR>>>>>>>> 3 in the 4p can help
it along for quite a while before they all<BR>>>>>>>> get
weak.<BR>>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>> I am
really convinced that a move to 1p config packs has
brought<BR>>>>>>>> with it lower useful cycle life.
I feel you need to be a lot<BR>>>>>>>> more cautious with
the 1p packs than the 4p's, or they will not<BR>>>>>>>>
last you very long
:)<BR>>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>>
Chad<BR>>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>> mike
mueller wrote:<BR>>>>>>>>> Chris Moon and I have
bought the new TrueRC 5000 packs. He has<BR>>>>>>>>>
been testing them for the last 2 months. They seem as strong
if<BR>>>>>>>>> not stronger than his FP 5350 pack. The
cost is only $110 a 5S<BR>>>>>>>>> pack. I've bought 4
packs and I'm hoping that they are as good<BR>>>>>>>>>
as initial testing has shown. I also have 2 brand new TP
V2<BR>>>>>>>>> Extreme 10S 5000 packs. All the packs
at the 10S configuration<BR>>>>>>>>> weigh in around
42oz's with all the connectors.<BR>>>>>>>>> The
True RC packs have a lower C rating but this may be a
good<BR>>>>>>>>>
thing.<BR>>>>>>>>> The higher C ratings seem to come
at the cost of lower pack<BR>>>>>>>>> life. Look at
the TP Pro lite's many have exceeded the 200
<BR>>>>>>>>> cycle<BR>>>>>>>>>
barrier and still have a decent pack. The TP Extreme's V1's
<BR>>>>>>>>> were<BR>>>>>>>>>
dying in 50 flights and I have yet to see much better than
a<BR>>>>>>>>> hundred flights from the FP's. From my
observation the older TP<BR>>>>>>>>> Prolites deliver
plenty of power for our setups. So I think
the<BR>>>>>>>>> TrueRC offerings are going to do the
trick. Dan from True is<BR>>>>>>>>> claiming over 200
cycles on them. I hope that I can get 100.
At<BR>>>>>>>>> the $'s he's getting it will be a huge
bargain.<BR>>>>>>>>> Mike
Mueller<BR>>>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>>>
The link is www.flightpowerusa.com
<http://<BR>>>>>>>>>
www.flightpowerusa.com/><BR>>>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>>>
I need to buy some packs myself. Anybody know if they
will<BR>>>>>>>>> be
at<BR>>>>>>>>>
Toledo?<BR>>>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>>>
Bob Kane<BR>>>>>>>>>
getterflash@yahoo.com<BR>>>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>>>
----- Original Message
----<BR>>>>>>>>> From: Verne
Koester <verne@twmi.rr.com><BR>>>>>>>>>
To: NSRCA Mailing List
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>>>>>>>>>
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 6:58:32
PM<BR>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion]
Batteries<BR>>>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>>>
Hi George,<BR>>>>>>>>>
I'm in the same situation and have decided to go with
the<BR>>>>>>>>>
FlightPower<BR>>>>>>>>> 5350's.
Even when the 5300's were fresh, I occasionally
<BR>>>>>>>>> felt<BR>>>>>>>>>
like<BR>>>>>>>>> I
could<BR>>>>>>>>> use a little more
punch, particularly on humid or windy<BR>>>>>>>>>
days. I've<BR>>>>>>>>>
competed<BR>>>>>>>>> with a number
of guys that had both the TP 5300's and FP<BR>>>>>>>>>
5350's<BR>>>>>>>>> who
would<BR>>>>>>>>> switch to the
5350's when they needed the extra power.
My<BR>>>>>>>>> plan
is<BR>>>>>>>>> to use
the<BR>>>>>>>>> FP 5350's and
change props for different conditions.<BR>>>>>>>>>
Nothing is<BR>>>>>>>>> free
however<BR>>>>>>>>> and you'll pick
up 2 ounces in the process. I considered
<BR>>>>>>>>> the<BR>>>>>>>>>
5000<BR>>>>>>>>> mah
10S<BR>>>>>>>>> packs from both TP
and FP but can't afford to gain 4 ounces<BR>>>>>>>>>
in<BR>>>>>>>>> either of
my<BR>>>>>>>>> existing planes. The
FP 5350's are the best solution for
my<BR>>>>>>>>> situation.
Mine<BR>>>>>>>>> just arrived this
week and won't be flown until the snow<BR>>>>>>>>>
melts so my<BR>>>>>>>>>
recommendations come from observations rather
than<BR>>>>>>>>> experience
at<BR>>>>>>>>> this
point.<BR>>>>>>>>> I bought mine
directly from FlightPower<BR>>>>>>>>>
http://www.flightpower.com
<http://www.flightpower.com/<BR>>>>>>>>>>
. Hope<BR>>>>>>>>> this
helps.<BR>>>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>>>
Verne
Koester<BR>>>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>>>
----- Original Message
-----<BR>>>>>>>>> From:
<glmiller3@suddenlink.net<BR>>>>>>>>>
<mailto:glmiller3@suddenlink.net>><BR>>>>>>>>>
To: "NSRCA List"
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>>>>>>>>>
<mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org>><BR>>>>>>>>>
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:26
PM<BR>>>>>>>>> Subject:
[NSRCA-discussion]
Batteries<BR>>>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>>>>
Hi
All,<BR>>>>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>>>>
I've been flying with Thunder Power Prolite 5300 packs for
a<BR>>>>>>>>> while now
and<BR>>>>>>>>>> they are getting very tired.
As they poop out, I'm trying to<BR>>>>>>>>>
decide what<BR>>>>>>>>>> to replace
them with. From what I've seen, the
Flightpower<BR>>>>>>>>> "FAI"
packs<BR>>>>>>>>>> are probably what I'll go with,
but if anyone has any other<BR>>>>>>>>>
suggestions,<BR>>>>>>>>>> please sing
out. Also, any suggestions as to a source
<BR>>>>>>>>>> would
be<BR>>>>>>>>>>
appreciated.<BR>>>>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>>>>
TIA,<BR>>>>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>>>>
George<BR>>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>>>>>>
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NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>>>>>>>>>
<mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>>>>>>>>>>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>>>>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>>>>>
NSRCA-discussion mailing
list<BR>>>>>>>>>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>>>>>>>>>
<mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>>>>>>>>>
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>>>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>>><BR>>>>>>>>>
---------------------------------------------------------------
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mailing list<BR>>>>>>>>>
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NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>>>>>>>>
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_______________________________________________<BR>>>>>>>
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NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>>>>>>
NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>>>>>>
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http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>><BR>>>
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mailing
list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT><BR><BR><BR><DIV><FONT style="color: black; font: normal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;"><HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px">It's Tax Time! <A title="http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001" href="http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001" target="_blank">Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance.</A></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>