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<DIV>I wonder how many are looking for the e-mail tonight. For sure I am one of them. Triangulation Method, that sound interesting.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>--<BR>Vicente "Vince" Bortone</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: <shinden1@cox.net> <BR><BR>> Don I will have a complete response tonight <BR>> along with the" Hebert traingulation method" for perfect trimming, <BR>> I know it gets confusing sometimes but I`ll try to explain it a little better <BR>> tonight <BR>> Bryan <BR>> <BR>> ---- Don Ramsey <DONRAMSEY@GMAIL.COM>wrote: <BR>> > I'm with Jim in not understand the reason some of the incidence changes <BR>> > work. Consider increasing the incidence for adjusting the push to the belly <BR>> > in knife edge. My reasoning would be; increase the incidence, put in some <BR>> > down elevator to fly straight and level. Roll to knife edge and the model <BR>> > would then push to the belly more severely. What am I missing? <BR>> > <BR>> > Don <BR>> > <BR>> > -----Original Message--
--- <BR>> > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of James Oddino <BR>> > Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 10:59 AM <BR>> > To: NSRCA Mailing List <BR>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] the joy of trimming , left rudder tuck <BR>> > downline pulls <BR>> > <BR>> > Bryan, <BR>> > <BR>> > I'm trying to figure out how increasing the wing incidence, I assume <BR>> > with respect to the fuselage, will get rid of a pull to the canopy on <BR>> > a vertical downline. Is it because you need to crank in some down <BR>> > trim to make it fly level? Or is it because the tail flies higher in <BR>> > level flight and the higher vertical cg creates a couple pushing the <BR>> > nose down during the vertical downline? <BR>> > <BR>> > I assume that if one could achieve a good vertical downline with power <BR>> > off, he
could then adjust the thrust to get a good vertical upline? <BR>> > It would seem that the thrust is part of what made it fly level and <BR>> > you would get into an endless loop chasing things around. What is the <BR>> > sequence for getting what you want? <BR>> > <BR>> > I adjust the relation between the downthrust and wing to get a good <BR>> > vertical upline and trim out the pull in the downline like Chad. Tell <BR>> > us how we can get a combination of vertical up with power, level with <BR>> > power (less power?) and vertical down without power that are all good <BR>> > without throttle to elevator trim. <BR>> > <BR>> > Jim O <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > On Mar 10, 2008, at 5:31 PM, <SHINDEN1@COX.NET><SHINDEN1@COX.NET><BR>> > wrote: <BR>> > <BR>> > > Chad having a small tuck to the belly on left rudder only,, <BR>> > > is always a result in a little too much tail weig
ht ,,providing <BR>> > > the stab halves and elevator halves are correct. <BR>> > > thats whats happening in your wandering 4/5`s <BR>> > > the tail weight as is ,,is making you add a little down elevator <BR>> > > trim because the wing is flying a little more positive. <BR>> > > You want to create the pos angle of attack with the wing only use <BR>> > > the tail weight only to adjust the feel for rolls and inverted flight. <BR>> > > engine thrust is contributory But ,not doing anything in the left <BR>> > > knife edge. <BR>> > > it would be happening in the right rudder too. <BR>> > > sorry Nat.. <BR>> > > approach it like this, before you reset the down thrust ,,,because <BR>> > > we want to know what really fixed it <BR>> > > increase the wing inc 1/32 " more positive or till it stopps <BR>> > > pulling in the downline , some airplane require the wing mor
e than <BR>> > > 1/2 deg depending on weight and airfoils 1/2 pos. is not a hard <BR>> > > deck and you will have to move the cg forward to remove the left <BR>> > > rudder knife mix ,,move it till you find a sweet spot , between <BR>> > > downlines and both knife edges. <BR>> > > , Always remember tail heavy makes the elevator and rudder <BR>> > > sensitive and nose wweightmakes them a little numb but much more <BR>> > > effective <BR>> > > your spins,snaps entry and exits ,, up and downline,45`s will be <BR>> > > corrected <BR>> > > you will also see improvement in the wind due to the forward c/g and <BR>> > > pos inc. add pos wing inc till it stops pulling to the canopy in the <BR>> > > downs <BR>> > > and let us know what happens <BR>> > > Bryan <BR>> > > darn now I have given away the family secrets ,And <BR>> > > I have just made it h
arder to beat Chad <G><BR>> > > <BR>> > > ---- Nat Penton <NATPENTON@CENTURYTEL.NET>wrote: <BR>> > >> Chad <BR>> > >> Your problem is caused by the large difference between T/L and <BR>> > >> wing. Reduce <BR>> > >> the downthrust by 1 deg and reduce the wing incidence by 1 deg , <BR>> > >> and test. <BR>> > >> <BR>> > >> We will go from there. <BR>> > >> <BR>> > >> Your excess downthrust requires up elev trim when under power. You <BR>> > >> need to <BR>> > >> adjust wing and T/L to avoid other problems. If you just lower the <BR>> > >> wing inc <BR>> > >> it will go to the belly in knife. If you just reduce the D/T it <BR>> > >> will go to <BR>> > >> the canopy in <BR>> > >> knife. Nat <BR>> > >> <BR>> > >> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> >
>> From: "Chad Northeast" <CHADNORTHEAST@SHAW.CA><BR>> > >> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <NSRCA-DISCUSSION@LISTS.F3A.US><BR>> > >> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 4:57 PM <BR>> > >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] the joy of trim <BR>> > >> <BR>> > >> <BR>> > >>> Ok you trim masters, here is a tricky one for you. <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> Bryan and I have been through this a bit last year but I ran out <BR>> > >>> of time <BR>> > >>> before the Worlds to fix it and just flew with what I had. <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> On my Twister I have this pesky problem, the setup is like so, <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> wing = 1/2+ Bryans suggestion and I like it <BR>> > >>> stab = 0 <BR>> > >>> motor = factory claims 2.5 down, have not measured but could if <BR>> > >>>
; asked, I <BR>> > >>> have added more to cure a problem see below <BR>> > >>> CG = has been anywhere from 275 to 300mm from TE mostly with the <BR>> > >>> same <BR>> > >>> result. Currently its around 285-290 and it feels good at that <BR>> > >>> point. 45 <BR>> > >>> ups inverted track almost hands off if under enough power. <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> Symptoms, <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> Plane flies well, at this setup I need 0 mix right rudder to ele <BR>> > >>> in knife, <BR>> > >>> and about 2% up ele with left rudder in knife, <BR>> > >>> about 1/32" down elevator with idle to fix a downline <BR>> > >>> Added downthrust as the increase in wing inc. and more forward CG <BR>> > >>> really <BR>> > >>> helped the mix in knife and made rollers easier,
but forced an <BR>> > >>> increase in <BR>> > >>> downthrust as the plane started pulling to the canopy on uplines. <BR>> > >>> Downline mix remained the same. <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> The big problem I cannot resolve is this, a 45 deg down upright <BR>> > >>> (motor at <BR>> > >>> idle) the plane pitches to the belly and will not track on its own <BR>> > >>> for any <BR>> > >>> length of time. If I switch the idle-down mix off its rock solid <BR>> > >>> on that <BR>> > >>> line. <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> I am open to all suggestions now that I have a bit of time to play <BR>> > >>> with <BR>> > >>> this, I hope Bryan chimes in some more as I would like to continue <BR>> > >>> where <BR>> > >>> we left off last fall. If you suggest s
omething I will do my best <BR>> > >>> to give <BR>> > >>> it a go and let you know how it works (provided it doesn't snow!) <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> The plane is basically super locked in with this setup, except for <BR>> > >>> the <BR>> > >>> silly 45 down upright, which is a problem in cubans and such. <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> Comments and thoughts from the masters are most appreciated :) I <BR>> > >>> consider <BR>> > >>> myself one of the, cant really trim that well but can fly through <BR>> > >>> it just <BR>> > >>> fine types :) <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> Chad <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >>> _______________________________________________ <BR>> > >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> > >>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.or
g <BR>> > >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> > >>> <BR>> > >> <BR>> > >> _______________________________________________ <BR>> > >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> > >> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> > >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> > > _______________________________________________ <BR>> > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> > > NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> > <BR>> > _______________________________________________ <BR>> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> > NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> > <BR>> > _______________________________________________ <BR>> > NSRCA-discussion mailing lis
t <BR>> > NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion <BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________ <BR>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list <BR>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <BR>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion </BLOCKQUOTE></body></html>