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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Chris,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Everything effects everything else. If there's a
"secret", that's it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You're starting in the right place with ..5-0. But
where you end up might not be in the same place.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Now you just nailed it on one thing you said: tail
heavy. Tail heavy pattern planes don't do all that well. oh you can get used to
it, but you will end up with a lot of mixes and wierd throws.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Keep in mind that this is "generally speaking",
every plane is different.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I usually start the Black Magics around ..25 and
trim in flight. Guess where I usually end up? Just about .5 on the wing.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If you're having to dig a lot of down elevator
passing through inverted it doesn't necessarily mean that the .5 incidence is
the culprit. you should have to add some down inverted, the question is how
much. You can play with throws and expos to make it not a big deal. if it's
REALLY digging inverted, check closer because you're missing something. As in
flat out diving, not dipping.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>But this is why I try not to get into heated
aerodynamic debates online. Unless we're talking about the exact same
airframe/engine/prop...heck even the landing gear, what works on one may not
necessarily work for another. Take the set up for a Focus and directly apply it
to an Itnegral, and let me know how it turns out =)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bryan's advice is usually dead on. And so is
Matt's. But as you can see thier theory departs and when it does, it's
pronounced. They both have well trimmed and great flying planes. I have tried
the zero or minimal thrust thing on my plane and it just well, didn't work out
for me. Down thrust, yeah about .5 down. But right thrust....I never figured
that one out without a lot of creative mixing. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>And then Bryan makes one heck of a good
point....why do the 22" props not require 10 degrees of right thrust? Set up on
the ones I build seem to be exactly the same as an 18" prop. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>So let's get to the real answers....it's voodoo.
Black magic. Witchcraft. Theory gets you in the ball park. Then you have to put
it in the air. Don't be afraid to try something different. Get aggressive. if
you want to learn, you have to ask questions and be willing to try anything.
Don't judge it in one flight though, always give a new method or set up a little
time. Because "correct" might feel very strange if you're not used to it. In the
end what you're looking for is whatever makes Chris' Abbra draw consistently
straight lines, axial rolls, clean snaps and true (or easily correctable)
tracking in knife egde. The answer is out there. But the seacrh for it could be
pretty exhaustive.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have one VF3 that doesn't behave like all of the
rest, and I have no idea why. I know that something is eluding me. And I know if
I am dilligent, I'll find it. Incidence? Balance? A twist in the tips? Blowback
on the surfaces? I don't know, but you can bet I will find out. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Now with all of that said, I know that some designs
are a lot better and more forgiving than others. The Abbra, I couldn't tell you.
I have only run across 2 planes that I considered "untrimmable", and neither are
current designs. Some planes it takes a lot more mix and some things you just
have to live with. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bryan and I have had one particular discussion
lately and I have come around to his way of thinking. Most people simply run
thier planes too tail heavy without enough positive incidence in the wing. just
keep in mind that this is to achieve what we are looking for, and someone else
can be totally different. But I warn you now, if you try and set up a VF3 or a
Shinden like a Focus, get a collar ready for that dog. You won't like it.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>An Abbra may just have a wicked pull to the canopy
you can't get rid of in a down line....or, you have to drop the incidence and
live with a lot of pitch mix? I'm guessing.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I could type a book on this and still not say a lot
=)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>-Mike</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com
href="mailto:homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com">krishlan fitzsimmons</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, March 08, 2008 8:10
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS
Questions+more - Rolls</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Thanks Lance.. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As I said, I have alot to learn.. I usually start with .5-0.. Then adjust
the cg and wing.. But on my Abbra, it's really messing with my downlines,
my knifes, and my rudder sensitivity. I'm going to start to make a list though
each time I go flying to let me know what I like and don't like with my
changes.. Probably doesn't help that I like to be a little more tailheavy..
Nearly hands off inverted.. </DIV>
<DIV>This conversation has made me think alot about what affects what in
different aspects of flight. And also that what I thought, may not be so..
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Chris<BR><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><br/><br/><FONT face="Tahoma" size="2"><STRONG><br><br>E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.0.178)<br>Database version: 5.09370<br><a href="http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor/">http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor/</a><br></STRONG></FONT></BODY></HTML>