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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jim, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Your logic seems very sound to me.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>G.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jnhiller@earthlink.net href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net">J N
Hiller</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 07, 2008 7:30
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS
Questions+more - Rolls</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle68><FONT face=Arial color=#993366
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Matt
you have been doing this longer than I have and I value your suggestions. I
tend to work with the CG and wing incidence first because it is quick and
easy. I readjust the wing incidence every time a CG change is made to
reacquire neutral elevator. I am not yet ready to mess with a cambered stab
airfoil. I found that down thrust changes influence the pitch more as the
airplane slows and very important in controlling pitch approaching a power on
stall turn, which may be different than coasting to a stop. The main reason I
go the easy route first is that the down line and knife-edge are also being
affected and if the change is detrimental it is easy to undo and try something
else.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle68><FONT face=Arial color=#993366
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">The
first Option-120 I built had an adjustable motor mount and stab as well as the
wing so I could set and try several different combinations. I was able to get
an acceptable pitch trim from 1/2 to 2 degrees of down thrust by tweaking the
CG and wing incidence except for a power on vertical stop where more down
thrust would pull the nose to the belly and the prop-wash on the stab would
pitch it to the canopy if the down-thrust was insufficient. Once I obtained an
acceptable balance I resisted further tweaking of the down-thrust angle. <SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I found that trusting the airplane to
hold vertical while approaching a stall turn was quite important. It is
difficult to see a flop inducing off vertical pitch and little time to correct
it. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle68><FONT face=Arial color=#993366
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">I
should also state that if the wing was changed very much by either cambering
the stab or moving the CG the down thrust needed to be reset to maintain stall
turn entry pitch. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle68><FONT face=Arial color=#993366
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">The
adjustable stab appeared to be of value only when the effective vertical wing
to stab separation was to be changed. Correct me if I am wrong but it has been
my understanding that the vertical separation has a significant influence in
knife-edge trim.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle68><FONT face=Arial color=#993366
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">In
most proven designs without adjustable stabs have been pretty well tweaked for
stab location / incidence and down thrust leaving weight, wing incidence and
CG to pilot preference tweaking. It seams we are trying to trim to the most
acceptable compromise that supports several flight attitudes found in the
schedule to be flown and pilot
compatibility.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle68><FONT face=Arial color=#993366
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">I have
probably said too much but the subject interests me greatly. It’s an unending
learning by doing experience that I can indulge in outside, all summer. I have
the #4 Option (small stab revision) airframe ready to cover. The snow pile
beside the driveway is under 4 feet now and the lawn is emerging from under
the trees. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle68><FONT face=Arial color=#993366
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Jim
Hiller <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle68><FONT face=Arial color=#993366
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of
</SPAN></B>rcmaster199@aol.com<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, March 07, 2008 11:23
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS
Questions+more - Rolls</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"
size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">If the model
pulls to canopy on a FULL POWER vertical upline and you reduce
downthrust, the problem will worsen. You need to add downthrust (about 1
degree initially, and more if needed). I would not mess with CG, at least not
yet. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Horizontal
flight places quite a load on the wing....the wing must lift the load
accordingly. Vertical flight removes the load therefore whatever trim was
found in horizontal flight will affect the vertical flight. The simplest fix
is downthrust addition for the condition Mike references, but assumes that the
model is close to begin with. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Downline flight
(NO POWER) is a totally different trim scenario and may indeed require
wing/stab inc adjustment and CG adjustment. </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">It should be
understood that it is an iterative process to get "perfect" trim.
</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">MattK</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Arial Unicode MS"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in"><FONT
face="Arial Unicode MS" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">-----Original Message-----<BR>From: J N
Hiller <jnhiller@earthlink.net><BR>To: NSRCA Mailing List
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><BR>Sent: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 11:33
am<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS Questions+more -
Rolls</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=emailstyle18><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">
<DIV id=AOLMsgPart_3_dc250c41-1c4a-4188-8f2a-b50d8ce6388f>The airplane may be
flying with positive trim. Try reducing the down thrust or move the CG
back.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT>
<P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=emailstyle18><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">If
it doesn’t help put it back.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=emailstyle18><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Jim
Hiller</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=emailstyle18><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face=Tahoma color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>
[<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Michael Wickizer<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, March 07, 2008 8:19
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> NSRCA Mailing
List<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] YS Questions+more - Rolls</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in"><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Bryan:<BR> <BR>I
agree that the plane doesn't know which direction it's flying, but then why
will a plane fly straight and level then pull to the canopy in uplines?
This has been driving Brett and me crazy for over a year. Admittedly, it
a much shorter drive for me:)<BR> <BR>Mike<BR><BR><BR><BR
style="mso-special-character: line-break"><![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><BR
style="mso-special-character: line-break"><![endif]></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; TEXT-ALIGN: center; mso-margin-top-alt: 12.0pt"
align=center><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in"><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><BR>> Date: Thu,
6 Mar 2008 23:13:48 -0500<BR>> From: <A
href="mailto:shinden1@cox.net">shinden1@cox.net</A><BR>> To: <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS Questions+more - Rolls<BR>> <BR>>
Chris ,, the airplane does not know it`s flying horizontal or vertical
<BR>> the wings are still lifting whether up or down that s why we can use
the vertical up or down to test this problem ,<BR>> Bryan<BR>> ----
krishlan fitzsimmons <<A
href="mailto:homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com">homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com</A>>
wrote: <BR>> > Lance, <BR>> > <BR>> > Just a thought though,
if going straight up, up straight down, aren't the up and down ailerons both
inducing equal drag, no lift? I've often wondered if our straight up test is
actually a perfect test for this. It is for our up and down lines, but what
about our 45's or horizontals where we do indeed have lift on the low aileron
and drag on the other? This would create a different condition I'm guessing..
Probably small, but still a little different because as I mention, both create
drag on the up or downline.. Still, it's the best test we have I guess..
<BR>> > <BR>> > Chris <BR>> > <BR>> > Lance Van
Nostrand <<A
href="mailto:patterndude@tx.rr.com">patterndude@tx.rr.com</A>>
wrote:<BR>> > This thread is timely because I've been experimenting with
differential <BR>> > recently on a new design that seems to need it.
Never needed it before on a <BR>> > pattern plane but now I might. My
test is to fly very high, point the nose <BR>> > directly at the ground
and roll pure aileron. Plane should be axial, but <BR>> > remember that
axial is along the vertical CG, which may not be a line that <BR>> >
pierces the wing LE/TE. You need to do it a few times to be sure that their
<BR>> > is an axis that everything rotates around and that line is
straight. If it <BR>> > wobbles, then we have an issue. Another way to
determine this is to do <BR>> > unlimited rolls while flying straight
up. If the airplane consistently arcs <BR>> > off its vertical line, you
have a problem.<BR>> > <BR>> > Aerodynamics suggests two
contributors. One is that the lowered aileron <BR>> > increases the lift
of the airfoil and lift creates drag so this wing may <BR>> > pull the
plane off axis. the other is that the spiral slipstream of the prop <BR>>
> is pushing down on the right wing and up on the left so up/right aileron
is <BR>> > more effective than up/left and down/left is more effective
than down/right.<BR>> > <BR>> > The overall effect for most
pattern planes is minimal and usually ignorable, <BR>> > but on IMAC
style planes these factors can be significant and the resulting <BR>> >
differential corrections may need to be adjusted with something as simple as
<BR>> > a prop change (from 3 blade to 2 for example).<BR>> >
<BR>> > the correction of course is to start playing with aileron
differential. <BR>> > Given the contributors I've suggested, its not a
given which way you go with <BR>> > the differential to correct the
problem and the answer might not even be <BR>> > symmetrical.<BR>>
> <BR>> > Note that contributor #1 above will change if you are
flying upright or <BR>> > inverted, so it would seem that a correction
for upright flight would simply <BR>> > exacerbate inverted flight, but
contributor #2 is the same for any flight <BR>> > mode but is throttle
dependent.<BR>> > <BR>> > --Lance<BR>> > <BR>> > -----
Original Message ----- <BR>> > From: "Koenig, Tom" <BR>> > To:
"NSRCA Mailing List" <BR>> > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 4:45
PM<BR>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS Questions+more -
Rolls<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > > My head is spinning!!! The
more I think about this, the more questions I<BR>> > >
have.........rather than answers!<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Maybe
the contra rotating prop set up on a Voodoo X( Nat??) maybe the<BR>> >
> answer??<BR>> > ><BR>> > > I still 'feel', that the
best rolls I get are with a 0 differential set<BR>> > > up-BUT-
somehow I 'drive' that wing to 0 ( or should that be some sort<BR>> >
> of equilibrium??) during the rolls. Certainly in my case, it seems to
be<BR>> > > Pilot dependant!!!<BR>> > > I'm starting to
think that my rudder control has turned to the<BR>> > > proverbial
trying to micro analyse what's happening!<BR>> > ><BR>> > >
Tom<BR>> > ><BR>> > > -----Original Message-----<BR>>
> > From: <A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>
> > [<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org?">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]
On Behalf Of<BR>> > > <A
href="mailto:shinden1@cox.net">shinden1@cox.net</A><BR>> > > Sent:
Friday, 7 March 2008 9:15 AM<BR>> > > To: NSRCA Mailing List<BR>>
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS Questions+more - Rolls<BR>>
> ><BR>> > > what happens on a 4piont?<BR>> > >
Bryan<BR>> > > ---- Del Rykert wrote:<BR>> > >> The
general consensus has been that the faster moving molecules over<BR>> >
> the top surface don't require as big as a deflection as the aileron
that<BR>> > > deflects towards the bottom of the plane. What one
tries to achieve is<BR>> > > the plane tracks as purely straight on a
string as possible while one<BR>> > > rolls both directions without
introducing any yaw.<BR>> > >><BR>> > >> Del<BR>>
> >><BR>> > >> ----- Original Message -----<BR>> >
>> From: <BR>> > >> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <BR>> >
>> Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 2:49 PM<BR>> > >> Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS Questions+more - Rolls<BR>> > >><BR>>
> >><BR>> > >> > Nat and all you other
aerodynamicists,<BR>> > >> ><BR>> > >> > I
thought that the rational for "aileron differential" was that<BR>> >
> upward deflection causes more drag than downward deflection so to<BR>>
> > equalize drag and prevent yaw with aileron deflection,
aileron<BR>> > > differential is needed. It seems that you guys are
now saying that<BR>> > > ain't so. Please elaborate.<BR>> >
>> ><BR>> > >> > George<BR>> > >>
><BR>> > >> > ---- Nat Penton wrote:<BR>> > >>
><BR>> > >> > =============<BR>> > >> > IMO
center hinged or top hinged is OK. With top hinge, to achieve<BR>> >
> equal vertical travel of the trailing edge requires different
angular<BR>> > > travel, up vs down. The objective is zero
aerodynamic differential.<BR>> > >> ><BR>> > >>
> Ron I don't think a fairing would prevent separation but, how are<BR>>
> > you able to fair the gap using the top hinge ? Nat<BR>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----<BR>> > >> > From: <A
href="mailto:ronlock@comcast.net">ronlock@comcast.net</A><BR>> >
>> > To: NSRCA Mailing List<BR>> > >> > Sent:
Thursday, March 06, 2008 7:20 AM<BR>> > >> > Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] YS Questions+more - Rolls<BR>> > >>
><BR>> > >> ><BR>> > >> > And while your at
it, I'd appreciate some discussion of the impact<BR>> > > of the top
hinge system as seen on Viavat, and Prestige birds - (top<BR>> > >
hinged, with fairing that eliminates the gap at deflection)<BR>> >
>> ><BR>> > >> > Thanks, Ron Lockhart<BR>> >
>> ><BR>> > >> > -------------- Original message
-------------- <BR>> > >> > From: <A
href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net">vicenterc@comcast.net</A><BR>> >
>> ><BR>> > >> > Nat,<BR>> > >>
><BR>> > >> > Could you explain why the differential should
be different for<BR>> > > non-center hinged? I understand that the
mechanical configuration of<BR>> > > non-center hinged requires
differential to obtain same travel in both<BR>> > > directions.
However, the travel up and down should be close to equal.<BR>> >
>> ><BR>> > >> > Thanks,<BR>> > >>
><BR>> > >> > --<BR>> > >> > Vicente "Vince"
Bortone<BR>> > >> ><BR>> > >> > --------------
Original message -------------- <BR>> > >> > From: "Nat Penton"
<BR>> > >> ><BR>> > >> > Tom<BR>> >
>> > It's just something that is peculiar to the Southern<BR>>
> > Hemisphere.<BR>> > >> ><BR>> > >> >
Changing wing incidence will not help. Unless things are really<BR>> >
> screwed up , at our roll rates, centrifugal forces are too low to<BR>>
> > cause a problem. You want zero differential, aero speaking (
same<BR>> > > up/down if center hinged ).<BR>> > >>
><BR>> > >> > I find the best check is the fast half-roll in
the vertical up.<BR>> > > Regards Nat<BR>> > >> >
----- Original Message ----- <BR>> > >> > From: Koenig,
Tom<BR>> > >> > To: NSRCA Mailing List<BR>> > >>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:24 PM<BR>> > >> >
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS Questions+more<BR>> > >>
><BR>> > >> ><BR>> > >> > Hi Troy!<BR>>
> >> ><BR>> > >> > Thanks for the info. I thought
you would be toiling away on<BR>> > > the next developmental stage of
these engines!!<BR>> > >> ><BR>> > >> >
Hopefully soon, I can find the time to get flying again. I am<BR>> >
> looking forward to running this little beast. I am still a little<BR>>
> > concerned in keeping it quiet though.<BR>> > >>
><BR>> > >> > Four blade props? I have some of the 18.1 x 12
two bladers<BR>> > > but I just cant see how I'll shut the thing up
with these paint<BR>> > > stirrers??<BR>> > >>
><BR>> > >> > Also-one more question to any of you out there
in pattern<BR>> > > land.<BR>> > >> ><BR>> >
>> > I have struggled with aileron differential for years. I
am<BR>> > > just not happy with the rolls. I have tried various
design fixes-but<BR>> > > about the only one that seems to work is to
get the wing back to 0-0 (<BR>> > > which can be achieved by a few
ways, design, mix or thumbs) Differential<BR>> > > itself does not
seem to work if the wing is POA ( well...it works for<BR>> > > half
the roll !)<BR>> > >> > Another black magic fix appears to be
to run parallel<BR>> > > ailerons-but this only 'sorta' seems to fix
it. I like the feel of<BR>> > > equal% chord ailerons
however.<BR>> > >> ><BR>> > >> > I am frustrated
with it-I like my planes to roll as if they<BR>> > > had a string up
its ...........well you know!<BR>> > >> ><BR>> > >>
> OK-any 'secrets' I need to know??? Very good elevator work<BR>> >
>> > fixes it ( hence my 0-0 comment)<BR>> > >>
><BR>> > >> > Tom<BR>> > >> ><BR>> >
>> ><BR>> > >> >
--------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>
> >> > ----<BR>> > >> ><BR>> > >>
><BR>> > >> >
_______________________________________________<BR>> > >> >
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> > >> > <A
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>
> >> > <A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><BR>>
> >> ><BR>> > >> ><BR>> > >> >
--------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>
> >> > ----------<BR>> > >> ><BR>> > >>
><BR>> > >> >
_______________________________________________<BR>> > >> >
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> > >> > <A
href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>>
> >> > <A
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion"
target=_blank>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</A><BR>>
> >> > _______________________________________________<BR>>
> >> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> > >> > <A
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> >> ><BR>> > ><BR>> > >
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> <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > Chris <BR>> > <BR>>
> <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> >
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