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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Interesting
discussion; differential aileron trimming is right where I left off last fall. I
have had airplanes that needed differential travel and some that didn’t. I find
the imbalance most noticeable when flying to or away from myself watching the
nose walk around the opening of an invisible cone as if one wing is rotating
over the top of or tucking under the other. At the 90 degree point the nose is
either above or below the flight path and at 180 degrees the flight path or heading
is off either left or right. The heading change may indeed be different for
each 90 degrees of rotation and in-flight correction may become. Late last
season the roll axis became unacceptable and as I began to evaluate the
probable cause (improper differential travel) it dawned on me that I increased
the endpoints on one channel (1) and not the other (6). I have used “Y”
connectors in the past and adjusted the linkage and the day I adjusted the
travel it didn’t occur to me that I needed to adjust both. Yes I know old guys with
old solutions for old problems from a simpler time. After returning all
endpoints to 100% to get back to square one and found that all 4 deflection
angles were different. Setting equal deflection made differential aileron much
more difficult to identify and then it got cold. I will need to revisit this
when it warms up. Thanks for the reminder.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Jim Hiller
<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span><span style="mso-spacerun:
yes"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle19><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Ken Velez<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, March 06, 2008
8:13 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> NSRCA Mailing List<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS
Questions+more - Rolls</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Gorge
Nat is correct, think about it this way. The down deflected control surface
produces more lift. lift = Drag. Lift is the force that's opposes
to gravity"</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Ken</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>-----
Original Message ----- </span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;background:#E4E4E4;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>
<div style='font-color:black'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:natpenton@centurytel.net" title="natpenton@centurytel.net">Nat
Penton</a> </span></font></div>
<font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us">NSRCA Mailing List</a> </span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> Thursday, March 06,
2008 6:08 PM</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] YS Questions+more - Rolls</span></font><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>George,
I believe the down aileron produces the most drag ( re adverse yaw ), but, over
half of our rolls occur in verticals.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>-----
Original Message ----- </span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:43.5pt;background:#E4E4E4;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>
<div style='font-color:black'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:drykert2@rochester.rr.com" title="drykert2@rochester.rr.com">Del
Rykert</a> </span></font></div>
<font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us"
title="nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us">NSRCA Mailing List</a> </span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> Thursday, March 06,
2008 2:11 PM</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] YS Questions+more - Rolls</span></font><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>The
general consensus has been that the faster moving molecules over the top
surface don't require as big as a deflection as the aileron that deflects
towards the bottom of the plane. What one tries to achieve is
the plane tracks as purely straight on a string as possible while
one rolls both directions without introducing any yaw. </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>
Del </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>-----
Original Message ----- </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>From:
<</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><a
href="mailto:glmiller3@suddenlink.net"><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>glmiller3@suddenlink.net</span></font></a></span></font><font
size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>></span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>To:
"NSRCA Mailing List" <</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</span></font></a></span></font><font
size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>></span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Sent:
Thursday, March 06, 2008 2:49 PM</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Subject:
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS Questions+more - Rolls</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:43.5pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=blue
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>> Nat
and all you other aerodynamicists,<br>
> <br>
> I thought that the rational for "aileron differential" was that
upward deflection causes more drag than downward deflection so to equalize drag
and prevent yaw with aileron deflection, aileron differential is needed.
It seems that you guys are now saying that ain't so. Please elaborate.<br>
> <br>
> George<br>
> <br>
> ---- Nat Penton <</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><a href="mailto:natpenton@centurytel.net"><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>natpenton@centurytel.net</span></font></a></span></font><font
size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>> wrote: <br>
> <br>
> =============<br>
> IMO center hinged or top hinged is OK. With top hinge, to achieve equal
vertical travel of the trailing edge requires different angular travel, up vs
down. The objective is zero aerodynamic differential.<br>
> <br>
> Ron I don't think a fairing would prevent separation but, how are you able
to fair the gap using the top hinge
? Nat<br>
> ----- Original Message ----- <br>
> From: </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><a
href="mailto:ronlock@comcast.net"><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>ronlock@comcast.net</span></font></a></span></font><font
size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'> <br>
> To: NSRCA Mailing List <br>
> Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 7:20 AM<br>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS Questions+more - Rolls<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> And while your at it, I'd appreciate some discussion of the impact
of the top hinge system as seen on Viavat, and Prestige birds
- (top hinged, with fairing that eliminates the gap at
deflection)<br>
> <br>
> Thanks, Ron Lockhart<br>
> <br>
> -------------- Original message -------------- <br>
> From: </span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><a href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net"><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>vicenterc@comcast.net</span></font></a></span></font><font
size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'> <br>
> <br>
> Nat,<br>
> <br>
> Could you explain why the differential should be
different for non-center hinged? I understand that the mechanical
configuration of non-center hinged requires differential to obtain same travel
in both directions. However, the travel up and down should be close to
equal. <br>
> <br>
> Thanks,<br>
> <br>
> --<br>
> Vicente "Vince" Bortone<br>
> <br>
> -------------- Original message
-------------- <br>
> From: "Nat Penton" <</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><a href="mailto:natpenton@centurytel.net"><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>natpenton@centurytel.net</span></font></a></span></font><font
size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>> <br>
> <br>
> Tom<br>
> It's just something that is peculiar to the
Southern Hemisphere.<br>
> <br>
> Changing wing incidence will not help.
Unless things are really screwed up <G>, at our roll rates, centrifugal
forces are too low to cause a problem. You want zero differential, aero
speaking ( same up/down if center hinged ).<br>
> <br>
> I find the best check is the fast half-roll
in the vertical up.
Regards Nat<br>
> ----- Original Message ----- <br>
> From: Koenig, Tom <br>
> To: NSRCA Mailing List <br>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008
7:24 PM<br>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
YS Questions+more<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Hi Troy!<br>
> <br>
> Thanks for the info. I thought
you would be toiling away on the next developmental stage of these engines!!<br>
> <br>
> Hopefully soon, I can find the
time to get flying again. I am looking forward to running this little beast. I
am still a little concerned in keeping it quiet though.<br>
> <br>
> Four blade props? I have some of
the 18.1 x 12 two bladers but I just cant see how I'll shut the thing up with
these paint stirrers??<br>
> <br>
> Also-one more question to any of
you out there in pattern land.<br>
> <br>
> I have struggled with aileron
differential for years. I am just not happy with the rolls. I have tried
various design fixes-but about the only one that seems to work is to get the
wing back to 0-0 ( which can be achieved by a few ways, design, mix or thumbs)
Differential itself does not seem to work if the wing is POA ( well...it works
for half the roll !)<br>
> Another black magic fix appears
to be to run parallel ailerons-but this only 'sorta' seems to fix it. I like
the feel of equal% chord ailerons however.<br>
> <br>
> I am frustrated with it-I like
my planes to roll as if they had a string up its ...........well you know!<br>
> <br>
> OK-any 'secrets' I need to
know??? Very good elevator work fixes it ( hence my 0-0 comment)<br>
> <br>
> Tom<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> <br>
> <br>
>
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