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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><<<<<<<<"Establish a
rule, written or not, that the pattern can not have any integrated rolling loops
or circles">>>>>>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Sounds to me like Masters !</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>G.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jshulman@cfl.rr.com href="mailto:jshulman@cfl.rr.com">JShulman</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 03, 2008 4:49
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed
topic to killing Masters?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Sorry Doug,
that makes too much sense and follows the basis of the way pattern is supposed
to be. That's unacceptable...lol.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><STRONG>8.2.5.</STRONG> <EM>There is no mandatory<SPAN
class=090392021-03022008> </SPAN>advancement into FAI from the Masters
class.<SPAN class=090392021-03022008> </SPAN>Contestants may enter their
current AMA class<SPAN class=090392021-03022008> </SPAN>or the FAI class
at<SPAN class=090392021-03022008> </SPAN><SPAN
class=090392021-03022008>a</SPAN>ny contest but not
both.</EM></FONT></DIV></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>If a pilot
does not like the way FAI is flown, he does not have to fly it. An Expert
class seems like a logical "solution" , but I believe it has been shot down
many times before. Wouldn't this be a great way to get the one's who want more
of a challenge than Masters, but don't want to fly F, a class of their own? It
could even be an "FAI type" of class where Masters is still the highest class
to advance into but pilots can jump into and out of Expert at any
time. Establish a rule, written or not, that the pattern can not have any
integrated rolling loops or circles. This would allow the FAI pilots to
continue to fly FAI, not just half of it. Masters and Expert pilots could
judge FAI, FAI and Expert judge Masters, FAI and Masters judge
Expert.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Sportsman-
gets feet wet</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Intermediate- likes wet feet</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Advanced-
ready to learn more</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Masters- ready to fly more of what was
learned</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>*Expert-
the imaginary perfect in-between class </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>FAI- wants
to be challenged beyond what was learned</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=090392021-03022008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>I really hope that here locally (D3) we don't do away with
the F sequence. But if that is what the majority decide is best for the class,
so be it. I know of 4 pilots that want to continue to fly F, and they already
compete in FAI.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<P><FONT
size=2>Regards,<BR>Jason<BR>www.jasonshulman.com<BR>www.shulmanaviation.com<BR>www.composite-arf.com</FONT>
</P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Doug
Cronkhite<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 03, 2008 4:14 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
'NSRCA Mailing List'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic
to killing Masters?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Actually,
I think the solution is to just decide once and for all that Masters will
not be the training ground for FAI and make the Masters sequence the
destination difficulty. I suspect that’s actually been done several times
and people just keep trying to change it.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">If
people want to fly FAI, then they have to just deal with the problems that
go along with it. No more complaining that the jump from Masters to FAI is
too hard or they don’t have the right airplane, because well.. too bad.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Seems
like this topic goes around the list AT LEAST once a
year.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>vicenterc@comcast.net<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 03, 2008 12:43
PM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA Mailing List; NSRCA Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing
Masters?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Jason,<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>I agree. Another solution is get the Master class
the level that was 8-10 years ago. It was between Advanced and
FAI-F3A. It was natural for pilots wining Masters to move to FAI and
not like we see now more moving from F3A to Masters. It is clear to me
that the new Master schedule is equal or harder than the new P
schedule. <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>--<BR>Vicente "Vince" Bortone<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal>-------------- Original message --------------
<BR>From: "JShulman" <jshulman@cfl.rr.com> <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">So if FAI pilots,
that are flying FAI now, want to fly FAI (P and F), and Masters pilots,
that are flying Masters now, want to fly Masters, what are we really
"discussing"? Are we looking for a middle class to call Masters + for the
guys that want to fly P and not F or Masters? Sounds like the addition of
an Expert class in AMA to give the fliers in Masters, that want a P
type of sequence, a place to go? </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Regards,<BR>Jason<BR>www.jasonshulman.com<BR>www.shulmanaviation.com<BR>www.composite-arf.com</SPAN>
<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in">
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal>-------------- Original message
-------------- <BR>From: "John Fuqua"
<johnfuqua@embarqmail.com> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=ec791490514-03022008><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I
have been following this discussion with some relutance to jump
in. As a current Masters pilot and old time F3A flyer I to
once pushed to have the Master schedule be the P schedule.
But you guys need to look at what FAI has done to the P
schedule. Here is link to the F3A rules. <A
href="http://www.fai.org/aeromodelling/documents/sc4"
target=_blank>http://www.fai.org/aeromodelling/documents/sc4</A>
</SPAN></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=ec791490514-03022008><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">FAI
has reduced the total maneuvers to 19 including a non scored
takeoff and landing. AMA Master is 23 including a
scored takeoff and landing. </SPAN></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=ec791490514-03022008><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Going
to FAI would certainly speed things up (which is what FAI
intended for large contests like WC to speed up the prelims and
get to the real contest).</SPAN></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=ec791490514-03022008><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Not
sure this is what AMA/NSRCA membership wants for a
destination class.</SPAN></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=ec791490514-03022008><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">John</SPAN></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center>
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf
Of </B>Del Rykert<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 03, 2008 7:14
AM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing
Masters?</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Hi
Dave..</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I
never saw anyone suggesting to do away with the
Masters class.. I have thought of another restriction/factor.
Some of the FAI maneuvers require a specific designed plane to
do them well. If you don't have such an aircraft in your stable
you can be looking at a prohibitive change to switch to those
type of planes or live with the self imposed handicap. Granted,
some of the best can make a good showing in FAI type maneuvers
but when needing the 1 point advantage in a high K-Factor
maneuver it does drive the contestants to seek the best
sled that works for them. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">A
good friend pointed out something I had lost sight of
once. He acquired a newer designed airplane to his stable
that performed the maneuvers he was flying so much easier.
The design choice alone was raising his scores by almost 1 point
per maneuver. With only a little bit of practice with new plane.
He never appreciated the handicap he self imposed
until having better equipment. Heck.. I still have coreless
servos and not a digital do I own.. How far behind am I?
LOL. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">
Del</SPAN> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">-----
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <A
title=burtona@atmc.net href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net">Dave
Burton</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us">'NSRCA Mailing
List'</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">
Saturday, February 02, 2008 7:33
PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F at
locals?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=ecmsonormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Del,
I’ve never advocated doing away with the Master’s class. I
only suggested adopting the most current FAI P maneuver
schedule and fly Master’s as a separate class as we do today.
Masters pilots would not be required to advance to the FAI
class unless they chose to do so. Seems to me like it solves
several problems. It allows a CD to have more flexibility in
arranging flight lines, a larger pool of knowledgeable judges,
eliminates the need for NSRCA (or others) to come up with a
new schedule periodically for the Masters Class. I don’t think
there is any difference in the difficulty level of the P
schedule and the Masters schedule today and would not require
any greater skill level than Masters does today IMO.
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=ecmsonormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Dave
Burton</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P
class=ecmsonormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>