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I think Mike hit the nail. The real problem is that there are too many <br>guys that advance then hit a wall or drop out briefly without an easy <br>way to move back. Adding another class is just bad. WIth the average <br>attendance at a contest probably around 20, probably less, if we add <br>another class to make 6, then that means essentially 3 people per <br>class. Not really a competitive atmosphere. My vote would be to allow <br>a system for guys to move BACK more easily, only for those who have <br>moved up voluntarily and did not point out in their last class or have <br>failed to excel in their new class. The peter principle applies to <br>flying also.<br><br>But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong<br><br>Chris<br><br>mike mueller wrote:<br>> I've flown both classes in the last 3 years. I don't think that this <br>> discussion is going to get the rules changed.There are way too many <br>> Masters guys who are content with the way things are. I would like to <br>> see the guys that are stuck at the bottom of their respective classes <br>> have an easier time going back a class. The main reason we have so <br>> many Masters flyers is we advanced guys thru the system before they <br>> were ready to compete due to a lack of competition. It's sad to see <br>> guys hit a brick wall and end up quiting the sport due to frustration.<br>> I like the idea that I can fly Fai or Masters based on my own <br>> volition. In the midwest we always have large fields in Masters and <br>> it's pretty hard to beat the field.<br>> Mike<br>><br>> */"Woodward, Jim" /* wrote:<br>><br>> Hi Anthony,<br>> Nice summary below. Another way to tackle this is to have the<br>> top-2 Masters pilots for each district be required to move to FAI<br>> for the next season. This would open up the Masters class a bit<br>> and allow for some reinvigoration into the class and allow some<br>> new blood to have a shot at some wood. While it may upset the two<br>> guys who would need to move for a season, it would "invigorate" a<br>> whole bunch more to practice with some enthusiasm. After 1 season<br>> of FAI they could move back to Masters if they want.<br>> Thanks,<br>> Jim<br>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any<br>> attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and<br>> may contain confidential and proprietary information. Any<br>> unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is<br>> prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient(s), please<br>> contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the<br>> original message.<br>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> *From:* nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us<br>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us] *On Behalf Of<br>> *Anthony Romano<br>> *Sent:* Monday, February 04, 2008 10:29 AM<br>> *To:* NSRCA Mailing List<br>> *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] Exper Class??<br>> HMMM. Ponder this<br>> Masters is the largest class at just about any contest in the country.<br>> Masters presents a large judging load.<br>> Many want to leave Masters as it stands.<br>> Many Masters pilots are frustrated by the extreme depth and<br>> competitiveness of the Masters class.<br>> A number of pilots want to fly FAI but are not ready for F sequences.<br>> Many FAI pilots don't have the resources to prepare for 2 sequences.<br>> Many of the top FAI pilots don't participate because we don't fly<br>> F sequences.<br>><br>> Adding an expert class that flies the current P could help.<br>> Sequence development and rules are already done. It would<br>> increases the judge and competitor pool while improving the level<br>> of flying and judging. Really no more work in scoring. So other<br>> than an extra set of awards, which most would gladly waive, what<br>> harm would it cause?<br>><br>> If my club would let me CD a contest again I would try it. Once<br>> again I agree with Jason. Should I be worried?<br>><br>> Anthony<br>><br>><br>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> From: jshulman@cfl.rr.com<br>> To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>> Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 16:49:09 -0500<br>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing Masters?<br>> Sorry Doug, that makes too much sense and follows the basis of the<br>> way pattern is supposed to be. That's unacceptable...lol.<br>> **8.2.5.** //There is no mandatory/// ///advancement into FAI from<br>> the Masters class./// ///Contestants may enter their current AMA<br>> class/// ///or the FAI class at/// a///ny contest but not both.//<br>> If a pilot does not like the way FAI is flown, he does not have to<br>> fly it. An Expert class seems like a logical "solution" , but I<br>> believe it has been shot down many times before. Wouldn't this be<br>> a great way to get the one's who want more of a challenge than<br>> Masters, but don't want to fly F, a class of their own? It could<br>> even be an "FAI type" of class where Masters is still the highest<br>> class to advance into but pilots can jump into and out of Expert<br>> at any time. Establish a rule, written or not, that the pattern<br>> can not have any integrated rolling loops or circles. This would<br>> allow the FAI pilots to continue to fly FAI, not just half of it.<br>> Masters and Expert pilots could judge FAI, FAI and Expert judge<br>> Masters, FAI and Masters judge Expert.<br>> Sportsman- gets feet wet<br>> Intermediate- likes wet feet<br>> Advanced- ready to learn more<br>> Masters- ready to fly more of what was learned<br>> *Expert- the imaginary perfect in-between class<br>> FAI- wants to be challenged beyond what was learned<br>> I really hope that here locally (D3) we don't do away with the F<br>> sequence. But if that is what the majority decide is best for the<br>> class, so be it. I know of 4 pilots that want to continue to fly<br>> F, and they already compete in FAI.<br>> Regards,<br>> Jason<br>> www.jasonshulman.com<br>> www.shulmanaviation.com<br>> www.composite-arf.com<br>> -----Original Message-----<br>> *From:* nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org<br>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]*On Behalf Of<br>> *Doug Cronkhite<br>> *Sent:* Sunday, February 03, 2008 4:14 PM<br>> *To:* 'NSRCA Mailing List'<br>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing Masters?<br>> Actually, I think the solution is to just decide once and for all<br>> that Masters will not be the training ground for FAI and make the<br>> Masters sequence the destination difficulty. I suspect that's<br>> actually been done several times and people just keep trying to<br>> change it.<br>> If people want to fly FAI, then they have to just deal with the<br>> problems that go along with it. No more complaining that the jump<br>> from Masters to FAI is too hard or they don't have the right<br>> airplane, because well.. too bad.<br>> Seems like this topic goes around the list AT LEAST once a year.<br>> *From:* nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org<br>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf Of<br>> *vicenterc@comcast.net<br>> *Sent:* Sunday, February 03, 2008 12:43 PM<br>> *To:* NSRCA Mailing List; NSRCA Mailing List<br>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing Masters?<br>> Jason,<br>> I agree. Another solution is get the Master class the level that<br>> was 8-10 years ago. It was between Advanced and FAI-F3A. It was<br>> natural for pilots wining Masters to move to FAI and not like we<br>> see now more moving from F3A to Masters. It is clear to me that<br>> the new Master schedule is equal or harder than the new P schedule.<br>> --<br>> Vicente "Vince" Bortone<br>><br>> -------------- Original message --------------<br>> From: "JShulman"<br>> So if FAI pilots, that are flying FAI now, want to fly FAI (P<br>> and F), and Masters pilots, that are flying Masters now, want<br>> to fly Masters, what are we really "discussing"? Are we<br>> looking for a middle class to call Masters + for the guys that<br>> want to fly P and not F or Masters? Sounds like the addition<br>> of an Expert class in AMA to give the fliers in Masters, that<br>> want a P type of sequence, a place to go?<br>> Regards,<br>> Jason<br>> www.jasonshulman.com<br>> www.shulmanaviation.com<br>> www.composite-arf.com<br>><br>> -------------- Original message<br>> --------------<br>> From: "John Fuqua" <johnfuqua@embarqmail.com><br>> I have been following this discussion with<br>> some relutance to jump in. As a current<br>> Masters pilot and old time F3A flyer I to<br>> once pushed to have the Master schedule be<br>> the P schedule. But you guys need to look<br>> at what FAI has done to the P schedule.<br>> Here is link to the F3A rules.<br>> http://www.fai.org/aeromodelling/documents/sc4<br>><br>> FAI has reduced the total maneuvers to 19<br>> including a non scored takeoff and<br>> landing. AMA Master is 23 including a<br>> scored takeoff and landing.<br>> Going to FAI would certainly speed things<br>> up (which is what FAI intended for large<br>> contests like WC to speed up the prelims<br>> and get to the real contest).<br>> Not sure this is what AMA/NSRCA membership<br>> wants for a destination class.<br>> John<br>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> *From:*<br>> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org<br>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<br>> *On Behalf Of *Del Rykert<br>> *Sent:* Sunday, February 03, 2008 7:14 AM<br>> *To:* NSRCA Mailing List<br>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed<br>> topic to killing Masters?<br>> Hi Dave..<br>> I never saw anyone suggesting to do away<br>> with the Masters class.. I have thought of<br>> another restriction/factor. Some of the<br>> FAI maneuvers require a specific designed<br>> plane to do them well. If you don't have<br>> such an aircraft in your stable you can be<br>> looking at a prohibitive change to switch<br>> to those type of planes or live with the<br>> self imposed handicap. Granted, some of<br>> the best can make a good showing in FAI<br>> type maneuvers but when needing the 1<br>> point advantage in a high K-Factor<br>> maneuver it does drive the contestants to<br>> seek the best sled that works for them.<br>> A good friend pointed out something I had<br>> lost sight of once. He acquired a newer<br>> designed airplane to his stable that<br>> performed the maneuvers he was flying so<br>> much easier. The design choice alone was<br>> raising his scores by almost 1 point per<br>> maneuver. With only a little bit of<br>> practice with new plane. He never<br>> appreciated the handicap he self imposed<br>> until having better equipment. Heck.. I<br>> still have coreless servos and not a<br>> digital do I own.. How far behind am I? LOL.<br>> Del<br>><br>> ----- Original Message -----<br>> *From:* Dave Burton<br>> <mailto:burtona@atmc.net><br>> *To:* 'NSRCA Mailing List'<br>> <mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us><br>> *Sent:* Saturday, February 02, 2008<br>> 7:33 PM<br>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F at<br>> locals?<br>> Del, I've never advocated doing away<br>> with the Master's class. I only<br>> suggested adopting the most current<br>> FAI P maneuver schedule and fly<br>> Master's as a separate class as we do<br>> today. Masters pilots would not be<br>> required to advance to the FAI class<br>> unless they chose to do so. Seems to<br>> me like it solves several problems. It<br>> allows a CD to have more flexibility<br>> in arranging flight lines, a larger<br>> pool of knowledgeable judges,<br>> eliminates the need for NSRCA (or<br>> others) to come up with a new schedule<br>> periodically for the Masters Class. I<br>> don't think there is any difference in<br>> the difficulty level of the P schedule<br>> and the Masters schedule today and<br>> would not require any greater skill<br>> level than Masters does today IMO.<br>> Dave Burton<br>><br>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You<br>> IM, we give. Learn more.<br>> <http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<br>><br>><br>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. <br>> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51438/*http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs><br>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>> NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion<br><br><br /><hr />Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. <a href='http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join' target='_new'>Learn more.</a></body>
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