<html>
<head>
<style>
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma
}
</style>
</head>
<body class='hmmessage'>
I was involved in the last sequence design cycle. One of the things that we did was first to establish the design criteria to work around. I'm sure Troy, if he is still out there, will chime in. Turns out there were basically 3 types of maneuvers we felt were strictly FAI and not to be used in Masters. These included rolling circles, integrated rolls in maneuver geometry and certain snap and roll combinations. We also felt that the maneuvers had to be performed by current generation and the previous generation or so of aircraft. Previous generation aircraft being those that did not have the side area of current designs and things like T-Canalizers which aid in doing certain maneuvers etc. I may have missed one or two other things, but that was basically it.<BR>
<BR>
I hope Koop dosen't mind. I'm going to let the cat out of the hat here. A group of us have been working on developing over the last year a very comprehensive guide for sequence design in the future. This guide is based upon an initial strawman that Jerry Stebbins devised. The guide provides all the structure for designing sequences, design boundaries, considerations , manuever listings for each class etc. for all the classes with the understanding that these criteria must be reviewed prior to designing new sequences to make sure that they address the needs of the pattern community at that time and can only be revised upon approval of the NSRCA board and judging committee and if necessary, the membership. THis document is around 60 pages already. Except for a few areas, it is basically complete and a current copy is in Dereks hands. It should be completely finished before the next Sequence Committee is established.<BR><BR>Below is the current design criteria for Masters from this guide. It is based on the last rules cycle criteria and has been massaged and some additional detail added. I do not want to discuss these at this time on the list. Don't have time to argue point for point right now. This just gives you a flavor. These are subject to change of course:<BR>
<BR>
<P class=MsoTitle style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: left" align=left><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none; text-underline: none"><STRONG><U><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">ANNEX A4 - Masters Class Design Criteria (AMA Event #404)<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></U></STRONG></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000> </FONT></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: 6.25in"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Definition<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: 6.25in"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: 6.25in"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Masters is the destination class in the progression of AMA Precision Aerobatic Classes. Masters is designated as Event # 404 in the AMA Radio Control Aerobatics Regulations. Masters is where the skills built on in Sportsman through Advanced (401, 402, and 403) are now applied.<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: 6.25in"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: 6.25in"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">The primary purpose of this class is to develop and demonstrate a pilot’s proficiency and skills to:<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><o:p></o:p></B></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>
<UL style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in" type=disc>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Fly straight vertical lines with centered maneuvers<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Fly with required geometry and accuracy of the maneuvers<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Fly accurate angles in all maneuvers<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Properly position maneuvers (Centering, and Turnaround locations)<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Perform standard Takeoff and Landing maneuvers<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Perform combinations of difficult/complex precision maneuvers in the box<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Fly proper entry/exit lines for all maneuvers<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Fly constant entry/exit radii for all maneuvers<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Properly position all elements within a maneuver (centering in lines)<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Maintain constant Aircraft track parallel to the runway in all conditions<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo3"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Perform the sequence gracefully with consistent flow and precision<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI></UL>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: 6.25in"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1"> </SPAN><SPAN style="mso-tab-count: 1"> </SPAN><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><o:p></o:p></B></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: 6.25in"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Airframe Considerations<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: 6.25in"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: 6.25in"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Airframes utilized will typically be current state-of-the-art F3A level models and older top of the line designs. <o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: 6.25in"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: 6.25in"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman"><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Design Considerations</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: 6.25in"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<UL style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in" type=disc>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Should be a stepping-stone to F3A but not on an equal footing in terms of model requirements.<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Skill based maneuvers that a well-practiced and skilled pilot can use to perfect the figures, not maneuvers that are airplane based like many of the current F3A schedules.<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Should be well balanced as to cover the vast majority of skill sets.<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Includes rolling both directions and hesitation rolls. <o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Includes Snaps and Spins, but not the snap-roll combos seen in F3A.<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Centering skills and Box management for turnarounds. This includes correction maneuvers after snaps and spins (Humpty bumps or top hat turnarounds) <o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Complex Figures, that are possible to complete but difficult to score high marks. These being figures that have lots of elements to make mistakes are good show of pilot preparation and skill.<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Almost equal weighting for upright or inverted entry or exits. <o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Focus is on perfection of shapes and flying skills that will favor the practiced pilot.<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">The skills that are built in Sportsman through Advanced are now applied in Masters with maybe some different looks.<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Level of difficulty up near the F3A Preliminary sequence. Sequence should not include any of the F3A Finals maneuvers such as rolling loops, circles or the detail and demanding snap maneuvers that are in the F3A Finals patterns. Middle ground is equal to F3A Preliminary but less airframe demanding to fewer skills required than the F3A Preliminary sequence. <o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Emphasis is on pilot skill and practice. Not the latest model or power requirements. <o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Difficulty in judging shall be taken into account when selecting sequence maneuvers<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Goal is for a total Sequence K-factor up in the mid 60’s to 70<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l2 level1 lfo2"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Goal is 21 to 23 figures total including Takeoff and Landing Sequence.<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI></UL>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.25in; tab-stops: 6.25in"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.25in; tab-stops: 6.25in"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Sequence Structure and Boundaries<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.25in; tab-stops: 6.25in"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.25in; tab-stops: 6.25in"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">The following criteria define the structure and boundaries to be adhered to in designing a balanced Masters Sequence covering the vast majority of skill sets:<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.25in; tab-stops: 6.25in"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></B></P>
<UL style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in" type=disc>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Maneuvers shall be selected from the Annex B4A and B4B Maneuver Catalogs of the “NSRCA </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000>Procedures for AMA Precision Aerobatic Sequence Development”. <SPAN style="COLOR: black">New maneuvers may be added to the Annex B Catalogs provided they meet all criteria set forth in the “NSRCA </SPAN>Procedures for AMA Precision Aerobatic Sequence Development”<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman"><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place><st1:PlaceName><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Total</SPAN></st1:PlaceName><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN><st1:PlaceName><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">K-Factor</SPAN></st1:PlaceName><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN><st1:PlaceType><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Range</SPAN></st1:PlaceType></st1:place><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">: 65 to 70.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Total maneuvers (including Takeoff and Landing): 21 Minimum, 23 Maximum<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">The sequence shall have only one box entry and exit <o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">No more than one(1) of the same family of maneuvers used in the sequence as a center maneuver. Exceptions to this requirement are stated below. </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">No more than two(2) of the same family of maneuvers used in the sequence as turnarounds (i.e. no more than two stall turn variants or half square loop variants). Humpty bumps shall be the exception with a maximum of three(3) when one is being used as a cross box maneuver.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; COLOR: black; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman">Minimum of two(2) cross box maneuvers, but no more than<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>three(3).<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Minimum of one(1) maneuver that incorporates a 4/8 pt roll. An 8 point roll may be substituted or included in the same sequence.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Minimum of two(2), but no more than three(3) downwind rolling maneuvers. These shall include a minimum of one(1) but no more than two(2) maneuvers that incorporate reverse rolling.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Minimum of two(2), but not more than four(4) maneuvers with a K-factor of 5.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Minimum of two(2), but not more than four(4) stall turns. Maximum of two(2) turnaround stall turns. Maximum of two(2)<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>turnaround stall turns in conjunction with one double stall turn type center maneuver (Double stall turns or Figure M’s).</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Minimum of 25% inverted exits/entries to inverted flight.</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Minimum of two(2)<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Snap Rolls, but no more than three(3) (all center maneuvers).</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></LI>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; tab-stops: list .5in left 6.25in; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><FONT face="Times New Roman">Minimum of one(1) Spin (center maneuver), but no more than two(2)<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>(one center and one turnaround maneuver).</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></LI></UL>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
From: drykert2@rochester.rr.com<BR>To: nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us<BR>Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 08:24:47 -0500<BR>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing Masters?<BR><BR>
<META content="Microsoft SafeHTML" name=Generator>
<STYLE>
</STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Only that some assumed that master class was purely taking FAI sequences to make up the masters class maneuvers.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2> Del</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>From: "Dave Burton" <</FONT><A href="mailto:burtona@atmc.net"><FONT face=Arial size=2>burtona@atmc.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'" <</FONT><A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us"><FONT face=Arial size=2>nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 5:26 PM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing Masters?</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>> Dang, I missed something. I thought we were only talking about what maneuver<BR>> schedule Masters Class would fly!<BR>> <BR>> -----Original Message-----<BR>> From: JShulman [mailto:jshulman@cfl.rr.com] <BR>> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 1:40 PM<BR>> To: NSRCA Mailing List<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing Masters?<BR>> <BR>> So if FAI pilots, that are flying FAI now, want to fly FAI (P and F), and<BR>> Masters pilots, that are flying Masters now, want to fly Masters, what are<BR>> we really "discussing"? Are we looking for a middle class to call Masters +<BR>> for the guys that want to fly P and not F or Masters? Sounds like the<BR>> addition of an Expert class in AMA to give the fliers in Masters, that want<BR>> a P type of sequence, a place to go?<BR>> <BR>> Regards,<BR>> Jason<BR>> </FONT><A href="http://www.jasonshulman.com/" target=_blank><FONT face=Arial size=2>www.jasonshulman.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>> </FONT><A href="http://www.shulmanaviation.com/" target=_blank><FONT face=Arial size=2>www.shulmanaviation.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>> </FONT><A href="http://www.composite-arf.com/" target=_blank><FONT face=Arial size=2>www.composite-arf.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>> <BR>> -----Original Message-----<BR>> From: </FONT><A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"><FONT face=Arial size=2>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski<BR>> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 1:22 PM<BR>> To: NSRCA Mailing List<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing Masters?<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Del, something I totally agree with you on<g>. If that is the gist of the<BR>> question you ask of which the answer in my mind is no.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>> From: </FONT><A href="mailto:drykert2@rochester.rr.com"><FONT face=Arial size=2>drykert2@rochester.rr.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>> To: </FONT><A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us"><FONT face=Arial size=2>nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>> Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 11:59:12 -0500<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing Masters?<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Is catering to the professional pilots what will draw more people into<BR>> the NSRCA and flying pattern?<BR>> <BR>> Del<BR>> ----- Original Message -----<BR>> From: </FONT><A href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net"><FONT face=Arial size=2>vicenterc@comcast.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>> To: </FONT><A href="mailto:johnfuqua@embarqmail.com"><FONT face=Arial size=2>johnfuqua@embarqmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2> ; NSRCA Mailing List ; 'NSRCA Mailing<BR>> List'<BR>> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 11:18 AM<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing Masters?<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> I think the idea is that the destination class (if we changed to<BR>> FAI-F3A) will fly the F-Schedule also. I see very strong advantages from<BR>> judging point of view. Both classes Masters and FAI-F3A will know the P<BR>> schedule really well since both are flying the same maneuvers. I expect<BR>> that the judging level is going to be improved. Yes, the Masters pilots<BR>> will need to learn the F-Schedule. Finally, I think more professional<BR>> pilots will be willing to participate in local contests because we will have<BR>> more competition at the FAI-F3A level. I think if we do this could be fun<BR>> that is the general agreement.<BR>> <BR>> Regards,<BR>> <BR>> --<BR>> Vicente "Vince" Bortone<BR>> <BR>> -------------- Original message --------------<BR>> From: "John Fuqua" <</FONT><A href="mailto:johnfuqua@embarqmail.com"><FONT face=Arial size=2>johnfuqua@embarqmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>><BR>> <BR>> I have been following this discussion with some relutance to jump<BR>> in. As a current Masters pilot and old time F3A flyer I to once pushed to<BR>> have the Master schedule be the P schedule. But you guys need to look at<BR>> what FAI has done to the P schedule. Here is link to the F3A rules.<BR>> </FONT><A href="http://www.fai.org/aeromodelling/documents/sc4" target=_blank><FONT face=Arial size=2>http://www.fai.org/aeromodelling/documents/sc4</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>> FAI has reduced the total maneuvers to 19 including a non scored<BR>> takeoff and landing. AMA Master is 23 including a scored takeoff and<BR>> landing.<BR>> <BR>> Going to FAI would certainly speed things up (which is what FAI<BR>> intended for large contests like WC to speed up the prelims and get to the<BR>> real contest).<BR>> <BR>> Not sure this is what AMA/NSRCA membership wants for a destination<BR>> class.<BR>> <BR>> John<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>> From: </FONT><A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"><FONT face=Arial size=2>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Del Rykert<BR>> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 7:14 AM<BR>> To: NSRCA Mailing List<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] changed topic to killing Masters?<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Hi Dave..<BR>> <BR>> I never saw anyone suggesting to do away with the Masters class.. I<BR>> have thought of another restriction/factor. Some of the FAI maneuvers<BR>> require a specific designed plane to do them well. If you don't have such an<BR>> aircraft in your stable you can be looking at a prohibitive change to switch<BR>> to those type of planes or live with the self imposed handicap. Granted,<BR>> some of the best can make a good showing in FAI type maneuvers but when<BR>> needing the 1 point advantage in a high K-Factor maneuver it does drive the<BR>> contestants to seek the best sled that works for them.<BR>> <BR>> A good friend pointed out something I had lost sight of once. He<BR>> acquired a newer designed airplane to his stable that performed the<BR>> maneuvers he was flying so much easier. The design choice alone was raising<BR>> his scores by almost 1 point per maneuver. With only a little bit of<BR>> practice with new plane. He never appreciated the handicap he self imposed<BR>> until having better equipment. Heck.. I still have coreless servos and not a<BR>> digital do I own.. How far behind am I? LOL.<BR>> <BR>> Del<BR>> ----- Original Message -----<BR>> From: Dave Burton<BR>> To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'<BR>> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 7:33 PM<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F at locals?<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Del, I've never advocated doing away with the Master's class. I<BR>> only suggested adopting the most current FAI P maneuver schedule and fly<BR>> Master's as a separate class as we do today. Masters pilots would not be<BR>> required to advance to the FAI class unless they chose to do so. Seems to me<BR>> like it solves several problems. It allows a CD to have more flexibility in<BR>> arranging flight lines, a larger pool of knowledgeable judges, eliminates<BR>> the need for NSRCA (or others) to come up with a new schedule periodically<BR>> for the Masters Class. I don't think there is any difference in the<BR>> difficulty level of the P schedule and the Masters schedule today and would<BR>> not require any greater skill level than Masters does today IMO.<BR>> <BR>> Dave Burton<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> From: Del Rykert [mailto:drykert2@rochester.rr.com]<BR>> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 7:09 PM<BR>> To: NSRCA Mailing List<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F at locals?<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Hi Dave<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> I'm not trying to imply that I have the correct answer to that<BR>> question. Not all people that advance through the AMA classes have the<BR>> desire or deep pockets to handle being competitive at the FAI level. Some<BR>> Master fliers in the past have told me the time commitment is high to be<BR>> competitive in FAI class. Higher than they can accept. That may be the<BR>> biggest reason. Not certain. But they do enjoy the difficulty and challenge<BR>> of flying masters and if told they had to move to FAI or if pointed out and<BR>> made to move up to FAI some would choose to leave. I see it as part of the<BR>> dues some are willing to commit to play. Some drop out after making it to<BR>> intermediate. Others after reaching advanced. Some have stayed and still fly<BR>> those classes but real! ize the y don't have the time, desire, money, to<BR>> move up and be challenging or at least make a decent showing they can accept<BR>> for themselves. I believe the competitive factor varies with us all and what<BR>> we are willing to commit to fly pattern.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> I'm even suspect their are other issues that escape us and why<BR>> they are happy to fly Masters.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Del<BR>> <BR>> ----- Original Message -----<BR>> <BR>> From: Dave Burton<BR>> <BR>> To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'<BR>> <BR>> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 6:10 PM<BR>> <BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F at locals?<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Del, what's the difference between " FAI type" schedules and<BR>> "Masters schedules"? You are correct about previous proposals not being<BR>> accepted. I have submitted a rules change twice for Masters to fly the P<BR>> schedule and it was defeated both times. Won't do that again, but I never<BR>> understood the opposition to it.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> From: </FONT><A href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"><FONT face=Arial size=2>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Del Rykert<BR>> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 3:24 PM<BR>> To: NSRCA Mailing List<BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F at locals?<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> So it would be acceptable to you to drive some away from pattern<BR>> as it has been clearly stated that some Master fliers by choice do not want<BR>> to fly FAI type schedules. It has been voted on with surveys and discussed<BR>> on this list in the past to not use that approach.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Del<BR>> <BR>> ----- Original Message -----<BR>> <BR>> From: </FONT><A href="mailto:vicenterc@comcast.net"><FONT face=Arial size=2>vicenterc@comcast.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>> <BR>> To: NSRCA Mailing List<BR>> <BR>> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 11:48 AM<BR>> <BR>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F at locals?<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> I believe that FAI rules states that it is required more than<BR>> 2 days event to fly F schedule. I am sure that someone out there is going<BR>> to be able to find if I am correct or not. Of course, we can use the AMA<BR>> rules and the CD can override this if he announces the change with time.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> I agree that in Masters we should fly the current P schedule.<BR>> This will make a natural transition when moving Masters to F3A. The rules<BR>> should be changed to make the F3A class the final destination of AMA<BR>> classes. In other worlds, Masters should not be the final destination as<BR>> it is now.<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> --<BR>> Vicente "Vince" Bortone<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -------------- Original message --------------<BR>> From: "Tony" <</FONT><A href="mailto:tony@radiosouthrc.com"><FONT face=Arial size=2>tony@radiosouthrc.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>><BR>> <BR>> Those are the very reasons that I stopped flying FAI. The<BR>> FAI rules state that the F patterns are for Regional, National and<BR>> International events, and are not designed to be flown at a local contest=<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<BR>> </FONT><A href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"><FONT face=Arial size=2>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>> </FONT><A href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target=_blank><FONT face=Arial size=2>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>> cussion<BR>></FONT> </BLOCKQUOTE><br /><hr />Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. <a href='http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join' target='_new'>Learn more.</a></body>
</html>