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<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>“Masters not a destination class” How long can I stay in advanced before
dropping out of pattern?<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>Jim Hiller<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=EmailStyle23><font size=2 color="#993366"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>vicenterc@comcast.net<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, February 01, 2008
8:48 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> NSRCA Mailing List<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] F
at locals?</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I believe
that FAI rules states that it is required more than 2 days event to fly F
schedule. I am sure that someone out there is going to be able to
find if I am correct or not. Of course, we can use the AMA rules and
the CD can override this if he announces the change with
time. </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I agree that
in Masters we should fly the current P schedule. This will make
a natural transition when moving Masters to F3A. The rules should be
changed to make the F3A class the final destination of AMA classes.
In other worlds, Masters should not be the final destination as it is
now.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>--<br>
Vicente "Vince" Bortone</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;margin-left:40.2pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>--------------
Original message -------------- <br>
From: "Tony" <tony@radiosouthrc.com> <br style='mso-special-character:
line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br style='mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]></span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<o:SmartTagType name="place" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="PostalCode" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="State" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="City" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="address" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="Street" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="PersonName" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:40.2pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Those are the very reasons that I stopped flying FAI. The FAI
rules state that the F patterns are for Regional, National and International
events, and are not designed to be flown at a local contest. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:40.2pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
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size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:40.2pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:40.2pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Tony Stillman, President</span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:40.2pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Radio South, Inc.</span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:40.2pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>139 Altama Connector, <st1:address u1:st="on"><st1:Street u1:st="on">Box</st1:Street>
322</st1:address></span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:40.2pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><st1:place u1:st="on"><st1:City u1:st="on"><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Brunswick</st1:City>, <st1:State u1:st="on">GA</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode u1:st="on">31525</st1:PostalCode></span></font></st1:place><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:40.2pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>1-800-962-7802</span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:40.2pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>www.radiosouthrc.com</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:
auto;margin-left:40.2pt;text-align:center;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:40.2pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Anthony Romano<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, February 01, 2008
8:36 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName u1:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [NSRCA-discussion] F at
locals?</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:40.2pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:40.2pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>Another
good point Jason. The more that the F is flown and judged the better we all get
at it. I can fly Masters or the P with equal mediocrity but the F
always just scared me off. Maybe one of my goals for this year will be to
learn it. Now if everyone promises no laughing I might try it.<br>
From comments I have hear a lot of guys just don't want to deal with
rollers.<br>
<br>
Anthony</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:
auto;margin-left:40.2pt;text-align:center;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:40.2pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>From:
jshulman@cfl.rr.com<br>
To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:08:38 -0500<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging by committee?</span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:40.2pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><span
class=ec300100000-01022008><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Problem with that is that
we're finding that enough FAI guys don't want to fly F... so why hold 2
FAI- P classes? I understand getting to know 1 sequence is
easier to judge, but the Masters and FAI guys should be able to have a handle
on the other class without much work. Its probably just me, but if FAI
were to fly both P and F, then having "Masters" fly P might be a more
Masters class this way. Then again, I may be off in left field, or is this
right? And since now both the Team Trials and Worlds pick the winning teams at
the end of the contest (after F) it would make more sense to start flying F
locally so it's not a shock come Nats time.</span></font></span><font size=2
color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:40.2pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'>Regards,<br>
Jason<br>
www.jasonshulman.com<br>
www.shulmanaviation.com<br>
www.composite-arf.com </span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:40.2pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Dave Burton<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, January 31, 2008
6:53 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> '<st1:PersonName u1:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName>'<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Judging by committee?</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:40.2pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;color:#1F497D'>There is a way to solve the peer judging and
several other problems with changing maneuver schedules for Masters class.</span></font><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:40.2pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Let Masters class fly the most current FAI P
schedule as a separate class. This provides a way that FAI class can judge
Masters and be completely familiar with the maneuvers and Masters class can
judge FAI and be completely familiar with the schedule. Then the rules
committee does not have to come up with a new schedule periodically as it
changes every other year just like FAI. The schedules (P & Masters) are so
close in difficulty that flying the P schedule should not be any problem for
masters class flyers.</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:40.2pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;color:#1F497D'>OK, Flame suit on!</span></font><font size=2
color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
Calibri;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:40.2pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;border:none;mso-border-top-alt:
solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Mark Atwood<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, January 31, 2008
3:56 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName u1:st="on">NSRCA
Mailing List</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Judgeing by commitee?</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:40.2pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'> </span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:40.2pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=1 color=black
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'>For
our matrix version, the A& B masters groups, we effectively ran 2
contests. The scorer set up a second masters only contest for the B panel
to enter their scores. It worked quite well with only a little confusion.
<br>
<br>
It did a great job of picking the top 5 guys and getting them into the top 8.
Im pretty sure you could argue that 7-12th place might have had some
variance...but I think thats true regardless of the format.<br>
<br>
-Mark<br>
<br>
<br>
On 1/31/08 3:49 PM, "Anthony Romano" <anthonyr105@hotmail.com>
wrote:</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:40.2pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=1 color=black
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'><br>
I suspected this would require super- human objectivity as well as
be a logistical nightmare. However, everyone reall knows the sequence. Really
like the matrix system but not sure how much work that makes for the scorer.
Anyone have any thoughts on how to score that<br>
One idea that was kicked around in D1 was fly an extra round in
Masters to generate an extra throw away. Each round two masters pilots judge
and don't fly rotating through the entire class. It seems like the time
required would work out the same because the group had two less pilots but
again lot of objectivity ( conscious and unconscious ) required especially as
the contest end grew near. <br>
<br>
Anthony</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:
auto;margin-left:40.2pt;text-align:center;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=1 color=black
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'>
<hr size=3 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:40.2pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;
padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=1 color=black
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'>Date:
Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:14:15 -0500<br>
From: atwoodm@paragon-inc.com<br>
To: nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org; nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judgeing by commitee?<br>
<br>
Anthony,<br>
<br>
I have to agree with Jim, but for different reasons. We did this about 4
years back at our district championships with the masters class. We had
17 pilots in masters, and only one (me) in FAI, and another 6 or 7 in advanced.
So getting any judging at all would have required heavily using the
Intermediate and Sportsman classes to judge, OR, heavily burdening the few
Advanced guys...and sitting through 17 masters flights is a looooong sentence.<br>
<br>
So we did the peer judging scenario. Given the options, it worked very
well. But it requires some serious juggling to even try and make it work
well. We ! used pe er judging for 4 of the 6 rounds. Two flight
lines, with a rolling panel of judges. 5 judges on each line, tossed high
and low by maneuver leaving 7 pilots not judging at any given time. This
allowed the person before and after each flight some time to prep and
decompress before having to jump in the chair for 5 flights and then start over
on the second line.<br>
<br>
Its a VERY VERY VERY busy process, not to mention that unless you completely
randomly resort the flight line each round, the pilot will be judged but the
same group...or maybe more importantly NOT judged by the same group each round.<br>
<br>
It worked...but it was messy. I would only do it again if we were
presented with the same grossly offset numbers of entries. <br>
<br>
On a related note... A better solution was tried a few years later when we had
similar numbers (16 masters pilots)<br>
<br>
We created 2 classes of masters...A and B. we still used FAI and
Advanced j! udges, but we were also able to sprinkle in B judges for A and vice
versa. We did 4 rounds for each group. Took the top 4 from each
group and combined them and they flew the last 2 rounds as a Finalists group
(with the other 8 judging and flying in their own group for the bottom 8
spots.)<br>
<br>
This was MUCH more workable, and I think netted a fairer event in the
long run.<br>
<br>
-Mark<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 1/31/08 2:46 PM, "Woodward, Jim" <jim.woodward@baesystems.com>
wrote:</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:40.2pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Hey Anthony,<br>
<br>
**** Attempting a 50 words or less approach without too much regard for
political correctness *****<br>
<br>
I dont think peer judging works. I dont think it sends the right
message about problem solving or achieving a more accurate score per maneuver
for each pilot. Psychology 101 would predict that it does not
foster the right mindset or circumstances for a competitive environment
(Reality TV shows like Survivor are based on one form or another of peer judging).
<br>
<br>
The #1 component that must be correct for it to work is that all pilot/judges
see and subtract about the exact same number of points per maneuver see the
same downgrades. The situation doesnt compute if one judge is off from
the others or uses impression judging. A bunch of stuff should probably
be in place for this to! work l ike: large number of judges, drop high
score, drop low score, etc. The highest caliber of honor, integrity, and
judge-education is required by all competitors to make this work. <br>
<br>
I witnessed this as a Masters pilot watching the FAI contest. I watched
the flying and this scenario VERY close. My opinion is that I would chose not
to compete in FAI in a peer judging scenario. <br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
</span></font><font size=1 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:
9.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jim W.<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=1 color=black face=Verdana><span style='font-size:
9.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:black'><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=1 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:.5in;margin-bottom:
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face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us [<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us%5d">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.f3a.us]</a>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Anthony Romano<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, January 31, 2008
1:44 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> nsrca-discussion@lists.f3a.us<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [NSRCA-discussion]
Judgeing by commitee?<br>
<br>
Finally got a chance to read the current K-factor and saw a note on the
Tangerine contest. The article mentioned FAI was judged by a commity of the FAI
pilots. Could someone please provide details. Do you think you could keep your
objectivity? ! For tho se that were there how did it work out? Sound
interesting because you would finally be judged by pilots who know the FAI
rules and the sequence.<br>
Could this be a solution for the oversized Masters class? Obvious
drawbacks too, but trying to inspire some thought.<br>
<br>
Anthony<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
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