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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Don’t we pay AMA dues to resolve
things like this? If enforced it could shut down many types of models.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p><b><i><font size=4 color=navy face="Brush Script MT"><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:"Brush Script MT";color:navy;font-weight:bold;font-style:
italic'>Jay </span></font></i></b><b><i><font size=4 color=navy
face="Brush Script MT"><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Brush Script MT";
color:navy;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Marshall</span></font></i></b><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> [mailto:</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Ed White<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, January 23, 2008
1:30 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> NSRCA Mailing List<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Fwd: Altitude limits</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I'm not interpreting this the same way at all.
First, the document is a notice of policy that has been released with the
action only for feedback, not for compliance. It is not a policy yet and
should not be being enforced just based on this document. Second, making
AC 91-57 the authority under which model aircraft are flown is not the same as
changing its contents from guidance to mandatory. The policy does not
change any of the words of AC 91-57 and in fact repeats those words,
"Model aircraft SHOULD [my caps] be flown below 400 feet above the surface
..." That is not the same as saying "Model aircraft MUST be flown
below 400 feet above the surface ...". In order for the 400 foot
limit to be mandatory, the FAA will need to change the existing AC which only
provides "guidance that encourages good judgment on the part of
operators...".<br>
<br>
Nothing in the notice of policy suggests to me that the FAA is proposing to
make any such change. <br>
<br>
Ed<br>
<br>
<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>James Oddino
<joddino@socal.rr.com></span></i></b> wrote:</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Begin forwarded message:</span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
</span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=4 color=black
face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;font-stretch: normal'><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:
</span></font></b><font size=4 face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;
font-stretch: normal'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'>Bryan
Hudson <<a href="mailto:gbflyer@sbcglobal.net">gbflyer@sbcglobal.net</a>></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=4 color=black
face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;font-stretch: normal'><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black;font-weight:bold'>Date:
</span></font></b><font size=4 face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;
font-stretch: normal'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'>January
22, 2008 10:00:42 PM PST</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=4 color=black
face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;font-stretch: normal'><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black;font-weight:bold'>To:
</span></font></b><font size=4 face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;
font-stretch: normal'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica'>James
Oddino <<a href="mailto:joddino@socal.rr.com">joddino@socal.rr.com</a>></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=4 color=black
face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;font-stretch: normal'><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black;font-weight:bold'>Subject:
</span></font></b><b><font size=4 face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;
font-stretch: normal'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;
font-weight:bold'>Re: Fwd: [NSRCA-discussion] Altitude limits</span></font></b></p>
</div>
<div style='min-height: 14px'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Jim,</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>That used to be correct up till Feburary last
year. Long story short. FAA (Advisory Circular) AC 91-57 for model
airplanes has been around since 1981. It "advises" fly models
below 400 feet AGL (above ground level). Because of the growing unmanned
aircraft industry, last February the NTSB / <span class=yshortcuts><span
id="lw_1201067814_2">FAA</span></span> issued a "Policy Statement" in
the Federal Register officially making AC 91-57 the "Authority" under
which models will be flown. So as of last Feb. fly below 400 AGL is
federal law. This information has recently been added to the <span
class=yshortcuts><span id="lw_1201067814_3">FAA</span></span>'s own web site,
and now it looks like the new policy is being
enforced. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>New regulation on <span class=yshortcuts><span
style='-moz-background-clip: -moz-initial;-moz-background-origin: -moz-initial;
-moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;background-attachment:scroll;
background-position-x:0%;background-position-y:50%' id="lw_1201067814_4">FAA</span></span>'s
web site <a href="http://www.faa.gov/" target="_blank" rel=nofollow><span
class=yshortcuts><font color="#003399"><span style='color:#003399'><span
id="lw_1201067814_5">www.faa.gov</span></span></font></span></a></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'>T</span></font>o
fly a UAS you must have an (Experimental Airworthiness Certificate) EAC, <u>unless
</u>you <font color="#3d3d3d"><span style='color:#3D3D3D'>are a hobbyist and
intend to fly your model aircraft in accordance with the guidance in AC 91-57
"Model Aircraft Operating Standards.”</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'>In other
words, if you want to fly higher than AC 91-57 allows (above 400 AGL) then you
must have an EAC. EACs are not being issued to modelers so don't even
think about that.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'>You can
find the Federal Register Policy Statement that lays this out on this site
also. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#3d3d3d"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#3D3D3D'>Go to
</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#3d3d3d"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#3D3D3D'><a
href="http://www.faa.gov/" target="_blank" rel=nofollow><span class=yshortcuts><font
color=purple><span id="lw_1200932571_0"><span style='color:purple'>www.faa.gov</span></span></font></span></a> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#3d3d3d"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#3D3D3D'>then
click on:</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#3d3d3d"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#3D3D3D'>Aircraft
Tab </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#3d3d3d"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#3D3D3D'>Aircraft
Topics - Aircraft Certification</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#3d3d3d"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#3D3D3D'>Design
Approvals</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#3d3d3d"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#3D3D3D'>Types
of Aircraft - Unmanned Aircraft</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color="#3d3d3d"
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#3D3D3D'>At
this point click on Regulations and Policies for links to:</span></font><font
color="#3d3d3d"><span style='color:#3D3D3D'>:</span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'><font size=2
color="#3d3d3d" face=Symbol><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;
color:#3D3D3D'>·<font size=1 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></font></span></font><font color="#3d3d3d"><span style='color:#3D3D3D'>Advisory
Circulars - AC 91-57 Model Aircraft Operating Standards </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in'><font size=2
color=black face=Symbol><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;
color:black'>·<font size=1 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></font></span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'>Policies
- <a
href="http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/design_approvals/uas/reg/media/frnotice_uas.pdf"
target="_blank" title="Federal Register Notice – Clarification of FAA Policy"
rel=nofollow><font color=black><span style='color:black;text-decoration:none'>Federal
Register Notice – Clarification of FAA Policy</span></font></a> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'>Or after
Unmanned Aircraft click on FAQ for statement on <span class=yshortcuts><span
id="lw_1201067814_6">FAA</span></span>'s web site.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'>Bryan</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=gray
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:gray'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=1 color=gray
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:gray'><br>
<br>
<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>James Oddino <<a
href="mailto:joddino@socal.rr.com">joddino@socal.rr.com</a>></span></i></b>
wrote:</span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'>Begin
forwarded message:</span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'><br>
<br>
</span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=4 color=black
face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;font-stretch: normal'><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:
</span></font></b><font size=4 color="#3d3d3d" face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;
font-stretch: normal'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;
color:#3D3D3D'>Ed White <<a href="mailto:edvwhite@sbcglobal.net">edvwhite@sbcglobal.net</a>></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=4 color=black
face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;font-stretch: normal'><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black;font-weight:bold'>Date:
</span></font></b><font size=4 color="#3d3d3d" face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;
font-stretch: normal'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;
color:#3D3D3D'>January 21, 2008 1:13:55 PM PST</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=4 color=black
face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;font-stretch: normal'><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black;font-weight:bold'>To:
</span></font></b><font size=4 color="#3d3d3d" face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;
font-stretch: normal'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;
color:#3D3D3D'>NSRCA Mailing List <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=4 color=black
face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;font-stretch: normal'><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black;font-weight:bold'>Subject:
</span></font></b><b><font size=4 color="#3d3d3d" face=Helvetica
style='font-size-adjust: none;font-stretch: normal'><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:#3D3D3D;font-weight:bold'>Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Altitude limits</span></font></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=4 color=black
face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;font-stretch: normal'><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black;font-weight:bold'>Reply-To:
</span></font></b><font size=4 color="#3d3d3d" face=Helvetica style='font-size-adjust: none;
font-stretch: normal'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica;
color:#3D3D3D'>NSRCA Mailing List <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='min-height: 14px'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'>It is
written in FAA Advisory Circular AC 91-57, dated June 9, 1981. You can
download it from the the FAA website (<a href="http://www.faa.gov/">www.faa.gov</a>
and then type AC 91-57 into the search box).<br>
<br>
It says "Do not fly model aircraft higher than 400 feet above the
surface." This applies to any location. But because the next
sentence says "When flying aircraft within 3 miles of an airport, notify
the airport operator ..." some people misinterpret the requirement
as 400 feet only when within 3 miles of an airport.<br>
<br>
The key point is that it is an ADVISORY Circular. It outlines the FAA's
preferred model aircraft operating standards, but compliance with the AC is
voluntary. An AC is not the same as a FAR (Federal Aviation Regulation). <br>
<br>
Ed<br>
<br>
<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Mark Atwood <<a
href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com">atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</a>></span></i></b>
wrote: </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color="#3d3d3d"
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#3D3D3D'>It was
always my understanding that we were never supposed to exceed 400 ft<br>
and that full scale aircraft were to stay above 500ft. But I'm not sure<br>
where that's written...<br>
<br>
-M<br>
<br>
<br>
On 1/21/08 2:35 PM, "James Oddino" <joddino@socal.rr.com>wrote:<br>
<br>
> I'm getting some breaking news that there is some type of advisory<br>
> that says we shouldn't be flying above 400 feet at our field in<br>
> Camarillo. Are there any general rules about altitude limits that we<br>
> should be aware of? We are pretty far from the Camarillo airport and<br>
> never get close to any full size stuff so I don't understand why there<br>
> would be a local restriction. More to follow I'm sure.<br>
> <br>
> Jim O<br>
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</joddino@socal.rr.com>
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