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I will try to attach the pdf file<br>
<br>
Chris<br>
<br>
James Oddino wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:6705D082-F2D5-44B5-9CB4-DDF85061F8DB@socal.rr.com"
type="cite">Where can we see the clarification of policy letter?
<div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div>Jim</div>
<div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Jan 23, 2008, at 10:05 AM, chris moon wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;">
<div class="hmmessage" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;"><span
bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">Here is the important excerpt from
the clarification of policy letter:<br>
<br>
<b>"Model aircraft should be flown below 400 feet above the<br>
surface to avoid other aircraft in flight."<br>
</b><br>
There is a BIG difference as far as the feds are concerned between the
words "should" "shall" and "must". We are not regularly above 400 feet
throughout a flight and frankly have no means of determining our
altitude accurately, so I don't see how this is any big change for us.
The intent was of course to regulate the big UAV craft and they had to
mention our models so that the big UAV guys could not claim their
planes were just hobbyist models.<br>
<br>
Chris<br>
<br>
James Oddino wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:A14E32EE-2E5C-4883-8D5F-93F47DA89E14@socal.rr.com"
type="cite"><br>
<div><br>
<div>Begin forwarded message:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><font
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="5"><b>From:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></font><font
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;"
face="Helvetica" size="5">Bryan Hudson <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gbflyer@sbcglobal.net">gbflyer@sbcglobal.net</a>></font></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><font
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="5"><b>Date:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></font><font
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;"
face="Helvetica" size="5">January 22, 2008 10:00:42 PM PST</font></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><font
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="5"><b>To:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></font><font
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;"
face="Helvetica" size="5">James Oddino <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:joddino@socal.rr.com">joddino@socal.rr.com</a>></font></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><font
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="5"><b>Subject:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></font><font
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;"
face="Helvetica" size="5"><b>Re: Fwd: [NSRCA-discussion] Altitude
limits</b></font></div>
<div style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>Jim,</div>
<div>That used to be correct up till Feburary last year. Long
story short. FAA (Advisory Circular) AC 91-57 for model airplanes has
been around since 1981. It "advises" fly models below 400 feet AGL
(above ground level). Because of the growing unmanned aircraft
industry, last February the NTSB /<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="yshortcuts" id="lw_1201067814_2"
style="border-bottom: 1px dashed rgb(0, 102, 204);">FAA</span><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>issued a "Policy Statement" in
the Federal Register officially making AC 91-57 the "Authority" under
which models will be flown. So as of last Feb. fly below 400 AGL is
federal law. This information has recently been added to the<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="yshortcuts"
id="lw_1201067814_3"
style="border-bottom: 1px dashed rgb(0, 102, 204);">FAA</span>'s own
web site, and now it looks like the new policy is being enforced.</div>
<div>New regulation on<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="yshortcuts" id="lw_1201067814_4"
style="border-bottom: 1px dashed rgb(0, 102, 204); background: transparent none repeat scroll 0% 50%;">FAA</span>'s
web site<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.faa.gov/" target="_blank"
rel="nofollow"><span class="yshortcuts" id="lw_1201067814_5"><font
color="#003399">www.faa.gov</font></span></a></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3">T</font><font size="3"><font
face="Times New Roman">o fly a UAS you must have an (Experimental
Airworthiness Certificate) EAC,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></font></font><font
size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><u>unless<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></u>you<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);">are a hobbyist and intend to fly your
model aircraft in accordance with the guidance in AC 91-57 "Model
Aircraft Operating Standards.�</span></font></font></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span
style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span
style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"><font size="3"><font
face="Times New Roman">In other words, if you want to fly higher than
AC 91-57 allows (above 400 AGL) then you must have an EAC. EACs are not
being issued to modelers so don't even think about that.</font></font></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span
style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span
style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span
style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"><font size="3"><font
face="Times New Roman">You can find the Federal Register Policy
Statement that lays this out on this site also.</font></font></span></div>
<span style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"><font size="3"><font
face="Times New Roman">
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Go to</span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.faa.gov/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><font
color="#800080"><span class="yshortcuts" id="lw_1200932571_0">www.faa.gov</span></font></a></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">then click on:</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Aircraft
Tab</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Aircraft
Topics - Aircraft Certification</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Design
Approvals</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Types
of Aircraft - Unmanned Aircraft</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></div>
</font></font>
<div><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">At this point click on<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Regulations and Policies
for links to:</span></font></font><span style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"><font
size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">:</font></font></span></div>
<ul style="margin-top: 0in;" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"><font size="3"><font
face="Times New Roman">Advisory Circulars - AC 91-57 Model Aircraft
Operating Standards</font></font></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; color: black;"><font face="Times New Roman"
size="3">Policies -<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></font><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="Federal Register Notice � Clarification of FAA Policy"
href="http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/design_approvals/uas/reg/media/frnotice_uas.pdf"
target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><span
style="color: black; text-decoration: none;"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3">Federal Register Notice �
Clarification of FAA Policy</font></span></a></li>
</ul>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span
style="color: black;"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><span
style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"><font size="3"><font
face="Times New Roman">Or after Unmanned Aircraft click on FAQ for
statement on<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="yshortcuts" id="lw_1201067814_6"
style="border-bottom: 1px dashed rgb(0, 102, 204);">FAA</span>'s web
site.</font></font></span></font></font></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span
style="color: black;"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><span
style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"></span></font></font></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span
style="color: black;"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><span
style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);">Bryan</span></font></font></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span
style="color: black;"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><span
style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"></span></font></font></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span
style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 7pt; color: gray; font-family: verdana;"><br>
<br>
<b><i>James Oddino <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:joddino@socal.rr.com">joddino@socal.rr.com</a>></i></b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="replbq"
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;"><br>
<div><br>
<div>Begin forwarded message:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><font
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="5"><b>From:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></font><font
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;"
face="Helvetica" size="5">Ed White <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:edvwhite@sbcglobal.net">edvwhite@sbcglobal.net</a>></font></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><font
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="5"><b>Date:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></font><font
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;"
face="Helvetica" size="5">January 21, 2008 1:13:55 PM PST</font></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><font
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="5"><b>To:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></font><font
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;"
face="Helvetica" size="5">NSRCA Mailing List <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>></font></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><font
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="5"><b>Subject:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></font><font
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;"
face="Helvetica" size="5"><b>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Altitude limits</b></font></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><font
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"
color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="5"><b>Reply-To:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></font><font
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal;"
face="Helvetica" size="5">NSRCA Mailing List <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>></font></div>
<div style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br>
</div>
</div>
It is written in FAA Advisory Circular AC 91-57, dated June 9, 1981.
You can download it from the the FAA website (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.faa.gov/">www.faa.gov</a><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>and then type AC 91-57 into the
search box).<br>
<br>
It says "Do not fly model aircraft higher than 400 feet above the
surface." This applies to any location. But because the next sentence
says "When flying aircraft within 3 miles of an airport, notify the
airport operator ..." some people misinterpret the requirement as 400
feet only when within 3 miles of an airport.<br>
<br>
The key point is that it is an ADVISORY Circular. It outlines the FAA's
preferred model aircraft operating standards, but compliance with the
AC is voluntary. An AC is not the same as a FAR (Federal Aviation
Regulation).<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
Ed<br>
<br>
<b><i>Mark Atwood <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com">atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</a>></i></b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:
<blockquote class="replbq"
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;">It
was always my understanding that we were never supposed to exceed 400 ft<br>
and that full scale aircraft were to stay above 500ft. But I'm not sure<br>
where that's written...<br>
<br>
-M<br>
<br>
<br>
On 1/21/08 2:35 PM, "James Oddino"<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><joddino@socal.rr.com>wrote:<br>
<br>
> I'm getting some breaking news that there is some type of advisory<br>
> that says we shouldn't be flying above 400 feet at our field in<br>
> Camarillo. Are there any general rules about altitude limits that
we<br>
> should be aware of? We are pretty far from the Camarillo airport
and<br>
> never get close to any full size stuff so I don't understand why
there<br>
> would be a local restriction. More to follow I'm sure.<br>
><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
> Jim O<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
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><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
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