I believe Chris is right on the money here. The real intent was to stop people from flying UAV's (of any size) for commercial purposes and claiming the authority to fly those was AC 91-57 (which has no airworthiness requirements) and was intended only for hobbyists.<br><br>Ed<br><br><b><i>chris moon <cjm767driver@hotmail.com></i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <style> .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } </style> <span bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Here is the important excerpt from the clarification of policy letter:<br> <br> <b>"Model aircraft should be flown below 400 feet above the<br> surface to avoid other aircraft in flight."<br> </b><br> There is a BIG difference as far as the feds are concerned between the words "should" "shall" and "must". We are not regularly above 400 feet throughout a
flight and frankly have no means of determining our altitude accurately, so I don't see how this is any big change for us. The intent was of course to regulate the big UAV craft and they had to mention our models so that the big UAV guys could not claim their planes were just hobbyist models.<br> <br> Chris<br> <br> James Oddino wrote: <blockquote cite="mid:A14E32EE-2E5C-4883-8D5F-93F47DA89E14@socal.rr.com" type="cite"><br> <div><br> <div>Begin forwarded message:</div> <br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> <blockquote type="cite"> <div> <div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="5"><b>From: </b></font><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px;
line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Helvetica" size="5">Bryan Hudson <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gbflyer@sbcglobal.net">gbflyer@sbcglobal.net</a>></font></div> <div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="5"><b>Date: </b></font><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Helvetica" size="5">January 22, 2008 10:00:42 PM PST</font></div> <div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="5"><b>To: </b></font><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Helvetica" size="5">James Oddino <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:joddino@socal.rr.com">joddino@socal.rr.com</a>></font></div> <div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="5"><b>Subject: </b></font><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Helvetica" size="5"><b>Re: Fwd: [NSRCA-discussion] Altitude
limits</b></font></div> <div style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br> </div> </div> <div>Jim,</div> <div> </div> <div>That used to be correct up till Feburary last year. Long story short. FAA (Advisory Circular) AC 91-57 for model airplanes has been around since 1981. It "advises" fly models below 400 feet AGL (above ground level). Because of the growing unmanned aircraft industry, last February the NTSB / <span class="yshortcuts" id="lw_1201067814_2" style="border-bottom: 1px dashed rgb(0, 102, 204);">FAA</span> issued a "Policy Statement" in the Federal Register officially making AC 91-57 the "Authority" under which models will be flown. So as of last Feb. fly below 400 AGL is federal law. This information has recently been added to the <span class="yshortcuts" id="lw_1201067814_3" style="border-bottom: 1px dashed rgb(0, 102, 204);">FAA</span>'s own web site, and now it looks like the new policy is being enforced. </div> <div> </div>
<div>New regulation on <span class="yshortcuts" id="lw_1201067814_4" style="border-bottom: 1px dashed rgb(0, 102, 204); background: transparent none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;">FAA</span>'s web site <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.faa.gov/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><span class="yshortcuts" id="lw_1201067814_5"><font color="#003399">www.faa.gov</font></span></a></div> <div> </div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">T</font><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">o fly a UAS you must have an (Experimental Airworthiness Certificate) EAC, </font></font><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><u>unless </u>you <span style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);">are a hobbyist and intend to fly your model aircraft in accordance with the guidance in AC 91-57 "Model Aircraft Operating
Standards.”</span></font></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"></span> </div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">In other words, if you want to fly higher than AC 91-57 allows (above 400 AGL) then you must have an EAC. EACs are not being issued to modelers so don't even think about that.</font></font></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"></span> </div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">You can find the Federal Register Policy Statement that lays this out on this site also. </font></font></span></div> <span style="color:
rgb(61, 61, 61);"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span> </div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Go to </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.faa.gov/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><font color="#800080"><span class="yshortcuts" id="lw_1200932571_0">www.faa.gov</span></font></a> </span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span> </div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">then click on:</span></div> <div><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></div> <div><span style="font-size:
10pt; font-family: Arial;">Aircraft Tab </span></div> <div><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Aircraft Topics - Aircraft Certification</span></div> <div><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Design Approvals</span></div> <div><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Types of Aircraft - Unmanned Aircraft</span></div> <div><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></div> <div><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span> </div> </font></font> <div><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">At this point click on </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Regulations and Policies for links to:</span></font></font><span style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">:</font></font></span></div> <ul style="margin-top: 0in;" type="disc"> <li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in
0in 0pt; color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">Advisory Circulars - AC 91-57 Model Aircraft Operating Standards</font></font> </li> <li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; color: black;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Policies - </font><a moz-do-not-send="true" title="Federal Register Notice – Clarification of FAA Policy" href="http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/design_approvals/uas/reg/media/frnotice_uas.pdf" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><span style="color: black; text-decoration: none;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Federal Register Notice – Clarification of FAA Policy</font></span></a><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></font></li> </ul> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: black;"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">Or after Unmanned Aircraft click on FAQ
for statement on <span class="yshortcuts" id="lw_1201067814_6" style="border-bottom: 1px dashed rgb(0, 102, 204);">FAA</span>'s web site.</font></font></span></font></font></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: black;"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"></span></font></font></span> </div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: black;"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);">Bryan</span></font></font></span></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: black;"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"></span></font></font></span> </div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: black;"></span></div> <div style="font-size: 7pt; color: gray; font-family: verdana;"><font size="2">
<div> </div> </font><br> <br> <b><i>James Oddino <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:joddino@socal.rr.com">joddino@socal.rr.com</a>></i></b> wrote:</div> <blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;"><br> <div><br> <div>Begin forwarded message:</div> <br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> <blockquote type="cite"> <div> <div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="5"><b>From: </b></font><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Helvetica" size="5">Ed White <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:edvwhite@sbcglobal.net">edvwhite@sbcglobal.net</a>></font></div> <div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="5"><b>Date: </b></font><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Helvetica" size="5">January 21, 2008 1:13:55 PM PST</font></div> <div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="5"><b>To: </b></font><font style="font-family:
Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Helvetica" size="5">NSRCA Mailing List <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>></font></div> <div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="5"><b>Subject: </b></font><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Helvetica" size="5"><b>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Altitude limits</b></font></div> <div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Helvetica;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="5"><b>Reply-To: </b></font><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Helvetica" size="5">NSRCA Mailing List <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>></font></div> <div style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br> </div> </div> It is written in FAA Advisory Circular AC 91-57, dated June 9, 1981. You can download it from the the FAA website (<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.faa.gov/">www.faa.gov</a> and then type AC 91-57 into the search box).<br> <br> It says "Do not fly model aircraft higher than 400 feet
above the surface." This applies to any location. But because the next sentence says "When flying aircraft within 3 miles of an airport, notify the airport operator ..." some people misinterpret the requirement as 400 feet only when within 3 miles of an airport.<br> <br> The key point is that it is an ADVISORY Circular. It outlines the FAA's preferred model aircraft operating standards, but compliance with the AC is voluntary. An AC is not the same as a FAR (Federal Aviation Regulation). <br> <br> Ed<br> <br> <b><i>Mark Atwood <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com">atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</a>></i></b> wrote: <blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;">It was always my understanding that we were never supposed to exceed 400 ft<br> and that full scale aircraft were to stay above 500ft. But I'm not sure<br> where that's written...<br>
<br> -M<br> <br> <br> On 1/21/08 2:35 PM, "James Oddino" <joddino@socal.rr.com>wrote:<br> <br> > I'm getting some breaking news that there is some type of advisory<br> > that says we shouldn't be flying above 400 feet at our field in<br> > Camarillo. Are there any general rules about altitude limits that we<br> > should be aware of? We are pretty far from the Camarillo airport and<br> > never get close to any full size stuff so I don't understand why there<br> > would be a local restriction. More to follow I'm sure.<br> > <br> > Jim O<br> > _______________________________________________<br> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br> > <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br> > <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
<br> _______________________________________________<br> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br> </joddino@socal.rr.com></blockquote> <br> _______________________________________________<br> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></blockquote> </div> <br> </blockquote> <br> </span></blockquote> </div> <br> <pre wrap=""><hr size="4" width="90%">
_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></pre> </blockquote> </span><br><hr>Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. <a href="http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008" target="_new">Get it now!</a>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</blockquote><br>