Perhaps the AMA should contact the FAA about getting all of the established model fields a fixed chunk of airspace up to, say, 1000 AGL and 1/2 mile radius. The vast majority of model fields in the US would extend into uncontrolled airspace so it wouldn't be a problem and then people can quit worrying about the AC. This would most likely end up being a simple NOTAM, but it would finally put this issue to rest.
<br><br>There are many types of operations in uncontrolled airspace such as full-scale aerobatics, parachuting, model rockets. . . all of them get permission to use airspace above 400 AGL, model airplanes should get the same authority.
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Jan 23, 2008 10:05 AM, chris moon <<a href="mailto:cjm767driver@hotmail.com">cjm767driver@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
<span bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Here is the important excerpt from the clarification of policy letter:<br>
<br>
<b>"Model aircraft should be flown below 400 feet above the<br>
surface to avoid other aircraft in flight."<br>
</b><br>
There is a BIG difference as far as the feds are concerned between the
words "should" "shall" and "must". We are not regularly above 400 feet
throughout a flight and frankly have no means of determining our
altitude accurately, so I don't see how this is any big change for us.
The intent was of course to regulate the big UAV craft and they had to
mention our models so that the big UAV guys could not claim their
planes were just hobbyist models.<br>
<br>
Chris<br>
<br>
James Oddino wrote:
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
<div><br>
<div>Begin forwarded message:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
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<b>From: </b></font><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Helvetica" size="5">
Bryan Hudson <<a href="mailto:gbflyer@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank">gbflyer@sbcglobal.net</a>></font></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="5">
<b>Date: </b></font><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Helvetica" size="5">
January 22, 2008 10:00:42 PM PST</font></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="5">
<b>To: </b></font><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Helvetica" size="5">
James Oddino <<a href="mailto:joddino@socal.rr.com" target="_blank">joddino@socal.rr.com</a>></font></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="5">
<b>Subject: </b></font><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Helvetica" size="5">
<b>Re: Fwd: [NSRCA-discussion] Altitude
limits</b></font></div>
<div style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>Jim,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>That used to be correct up till Feburary last year. Long story
short. FAA (Advisory Circular) AC 91-57 for model airplanes has been
around since 1981. It "advises" fly models below 400 feet AGL (above
ground level). Because of the growing unmanned aircraft industry, last
February the NTSB / <span style="border-bottom: 1px dashed rgb(0, 102, 204);">FAA</span> issued
a "Policy Statement" in the Federal Register officially making AC 91-57
the "Authority" under which models will be flown. So as of last Feb.
fly below 400 AGL is federal law. This information has recently been
added to the <span style="border-bottom: 1px dashed rgb(0, 102, 204);">FAA</span>'s own
web site, and now it looks like the new policy is being enforced. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>New regulation on <span style="border-bottom: 1px dashed rgb(0, 102, 204); background: transparent none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;">
FAA</span>'s
web site <a href="http://www.faa.gov/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><span><font color="#003399">www.faa.gov</font></span></a></div>
<div> </div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font face="Times New
Roman" size="3">T</font><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">o fly a UAS you must have an (Experimental
Airworthiness Certificate) EAC, </font></font><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><u>unless </u>you <span style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);">are a hobbyist and intend to fly your
model aircraft in accordance with the guidance in AC 91-57 "Model
Aircraft Operating Standards."</span></font></font></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"></span> </div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">In other words, if you want to fly higher than
AC 91-57 allows (above 400 AGL) then you must have an EAC. EACs are not
being issued to modelers so don't even think about that.</font></font></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"></span> </div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">You can find the Federal Register Policy
Statement that lays this out on this site also. </font></font></span></div>
<span style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span> </div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Go to </span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><a href="http://www.faa.gov/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><font color="#800080"><span>www.faa.gov</span></font></a>
</span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span> </div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">then click on:</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Aircraft
Tab </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Aircraft
Topics - Aircraft Certification</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Design
Approvals</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Types of
Aircraft - Unmanned Aircraft</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span></div>
<div><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"></span> </div>
</font></font>
<div><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">At this point click on </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">Regulations and Policies
for links to:</span></font></font><span style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">:</font></font></span></div>
<ul style="margin-top: 0in;" type="disc">
<li style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">Advisory Circulars - AC 91-57 Model Aircraft
Operating Standards</font></font> </li>
<li style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt; color: black;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Policies - </font><a title="Federal Register Notice – Clarification of FAA Policy" href="http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/design_approvals/uas/reg/media/frnotice_uas.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
<span style="color: black; text-decoration: none;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Federal Register Notice –
Clarification of FAA Policy</font></span></a><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"> </font></font></li>
</ul>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: black;"><font size="3"><font face="Times New
Roman"><span style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">Or after Unmanned Aircraft click on FAQ for
statement on <span style="border-bottom: 1px dashed rgb(0, 102, 204);">FAA</span>'s web
site.</font></font></span></font></font></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: black;"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"></span></font></font></span> </div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: black;"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><span style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);">Bryan</span></font></font></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: black;"><font size="3"><font face="Times New
Roman"><span style="color: rgb(61, 61, 61);"></span></font></font></span> </div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: black;"></span></div>
<div style="font-size: 7pt; color: gray; font-family: verdana;"><font size="2">
<div> </div>
</font><br>
<br>
<b><i>James Oddino <<a href="mailto:joddino@socal.rr.com" target="_blank">joddino@socal.rr.com</a>></i></b>
wrote:</div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;"><br>
<div><br>
<div>Begin forwarded message:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="5">
<b>From: </b></font><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Helvetica" size="5">
Ed White <<a href="mailto:edvwhite@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank">edvwhite@sbcglobal.net</a>></font></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="5">
<b>Date: </b></font><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Helvetica" size="5">
January 21, 2008 1:13:55 PM PST</font></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="5">
<b>To: </b></font><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Helvetica" size="5">
NSRCA Mailing List <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>></font></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="5">
<b>Subject: </b></font><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Helvetica" size="5">
<b>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Altitude limits</b></font></div>
<div style="margin: 0px;"><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" color="#000000" face="Helvetica" size="5">
<b>Reply-To: </b></font><font style="font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;" face="Helvetica" size="5">
NSRCA Mailing List <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>></font></div>
<div style="margin: 0px; min-height: 14px;"><br>
</div>
</div>
It is written in FAA Advisory Circular AC 91-57, dated June 9, 1981.
You can download it from the the FAA website (<a href="http://www.faa.gov/" target="_blank">www.faa.gov</a> and then type AC 91-57 into
the search box).<br>
<br>
It says "Do not fly model aircraft higher than 400 feet above the
surface." This applies to any location. But because the next sentence
says "When flying aircraft within 3 miles of an airport, notify the
airport operator ..." some people misinterpret the requirement as 400
feet only when within 3 miles of an airport.<br>
<br>
The key point is that it is an ADVISORY Circular. It outlines the FAA's
preferred model aircraft operating standards, but compliance with the
AC is voluntary. An AC is not the same as a FAR (Federal Aviation
Regulation). <br>
<br>
Ed<br>
<br>
<b><i>Mark Atwood <<a href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com" target="_blank">atwoodm@paragon-inc.com</a>></i></b>
wrote:
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;">It
was always my understanding that we were never supposed to exceed 400 ft<br>
and that full scale aircraft were to stay above 500ft. But I'm not sure<br>
where that's written...<br>
<br>
-M<br>
<br>
<br>
On 1/21/08 2:35 PM, "James Oddino" wrote:<br>
<br>
> I'm getting some breaking news that there is some type of advisory<br>
> that says we shouldn't be flying above 400 feet at our field in<br>
> Camarillo. Are there any general rules about altitude limits that
we<br>
> should be aware of? We are pretty far from the Camarillo airport
and<br>
> never get close to any full size stuff so I don't understand why
there<br>
> would be a local restriction. More to follow I'm sure.<br>
> <br>
> Jim O<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><br>
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