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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=984003001-25122007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Once you figure out everything, Jim... can you write a
manual for us? :-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>James
Oddino<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 24, 2007 4:30 PM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA
Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba and pattern ( A
plus for Futaba)<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Earl,
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>I set the maximum Hysteresis (32) and it looks like the it is about 8
microseconds so you'd have two neutrals about 8 microseconds apart. In
fact the pulse width tends to jump in 8 microsecond steps as you move the sticks
slowly. Not desirable. </DIV>
<DIV>Some of my original lack of a consistent neutral was probably due to the
default hysteresis set to 1. So the sticks are better than I thought.
</DIV>
<DIV>I also noted that when switching rates I was getting a shift in neutral
until I put the "stick deadband" (with zero hysteresis) in all rates.
</DIV>
<DIV>I think I'm going to love this radio.</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>Jim O</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Dec 23, 2007, at 12:24 PM, Earl Haury wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 18px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0">
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"
bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Jim O</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>On the 14MZ, go to system, H/W, Stick Settings and you
are able to globally set the Response & Hysteresis for each stick. You
might find this easier than using the spline for setting a deadband. (Be
interested in the actual pw / bits difference with each setting if you measure
it.)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Earl</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(228,228,228); -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial"><B>From:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A title=joddino@socal.rr.com
href="mailto:joddino@socal.rr.com">James Oddino</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Sunday, December 23, 2007 12:08
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba and
pattern ( A plus for Futaba)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Bob,
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>I would think that 256 resolution would mask poor stick centering.
Think about 3 step resolution. Right, neutral left. When you
select neutral it is always the same unless you move the stick to the
extreme where you get right or left. The problem is you can't trim
neutral unless you do it with another channel like folks did back in the
reed days. Move the servo with another servo.
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>You had many factors affecting trim in your 8 bit system starting with
drift in the servos and an AM link that introduced large changes in pulse
width to the servos as signal strength changed. You could adjust
linkages everyday and not keep up with everything that was fighting
you.</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>So if low resolution masks poor stick centering then more resolution
must emphasize it. This has always bothered me. I learned long
ago that the servos can resolve pulse widths that would appear to be in the
servo deadband. In the early dual rate schemes we had to adjust the
neutral if we changed the dual rate setting. I tried using a servo to
do this. Adjust the pot until the servo didn't move as I switched the
dual rate <SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN> <SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>switch back and forth. Go fly.
Every time I threw the rate switch the trim would change. Went
home looked at it on a scope and sure enough the pulse width was changing.
Adjusted it so it didn't and the trim didn't change with the position
of the rate switch when I flew.</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>This week I got a Futaba 14MZ. I checked the stick centering with
a scope. Not perfect. Plus or minus a few bits. Now a bit
in a 2048 is only about a half of a microsecond change in pulse width to the
servo so most folks don't care. However I found that with the line or
spline curve programming of the control sicks I can put in a plus and minus
.5% deadband in the stick. Now the centering is perfect no matter how
I return the stick to neutral and I can trim it in .5 microsecond
increments. </DIV>
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>I love this high tech stuff.</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>Jim O</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Dec 23, 2007, at 5:37 AM, Bob Richards wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 18px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
<DIV>
<DIV>Jim,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You may be correct, the stick centering depends on the quality of the
stick. But, throw in 256 instead of 1024 resolution, the step
size is now 4 times as much and it would be much more noticeable.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ok, if we were flying the 4 channel Conquest transmitter (cheap
plastic gimbals) with 148 servos (non-ball bearing) in a slow moving
trainer, we probably could not tell the difference between 256 and 2048
resolution. So, would I be better to fly a Conquest radio in pattern? That
seems to be the type logic I would get from people that say 256 is "better
than most servos".</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Oops, I forgot the Conquest is an analog radio. No steps whatsoever.
;-)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Bob R.</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>J N Hiller <<A
href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net">jnhiller@earthlink.net</A>></I></B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">
<DIV class=Section1>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><SPAN
class=EmailStyle15 style="COLOR: navy"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Guys I don’t
believe the mechanical stick centering is absolute enough especially on
a somewhat used radio at least on less than top of the line
transmitters. The detent design and pivot bearings are less than shall
we say industrial quality. Bob, I had the roll-centering problem you
described with my super 7 and felt it was due to stick centering not
being equal from either left or right. I think my 9-C is better but not
absolute. I wish I had one of those little devices that displayed the
signal count to verify my
suspicion.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><SPAN
class=EmailStyle15 style="COLOR: navy"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim
Hiller<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><SPAN
class=EmailStyle15 style="COLOR: navy"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>[<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN></B>Bob
Richards<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Saturday, December 22, 2007
3:37 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>NSRCA Mailing List<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba
and pattern</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Ron,</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">All I can say is, I flew the
Micropro with every intention of competing at the '93 NATS with it. I
had trimming issues with my plane that I could not tune out. Some
flights would be good, some I could not trim the plane for level flight
(slight roll left or right). And, yes, I had taken out all the throw I
could mechanically so I had 100% throws programmed into the radio.
Frustrated, I decided to put my 7UAP in the plane, and it immediately
felt good. That is when I decided to do a little digging and discovered
the resolution issue.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Whenever I mention that 256 is not
good enough, I hear all sorts of reasons why 256 should be sufficient.
Yes, once the stick is moved away from center, 256 probably is good
enough. But when the stick is at center, the darn servo better go back
to the same position every time. And you need fine resolution at center
so the neutral position can be varied in small enough amouts to arrive
at precisely the desired position. </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">With a slightly worn stick or pot,
the neutral position might be bouncing between two adjacent steps. With
256 resolution, this can be VERY noticeable. With 1024 or higher
resolution, not nearly as noticeable, if at all.</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Given the outcome of the '93
season with my old 7UAP, I'm glad I switched out the
radios.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Bob R.</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><BR><BR><B><I><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-STYLE: italic">Ron Van Putte <<A
href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net">vanputte@cox.net</A>></SPAN></I></B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>wrote:</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Hmmmm, I never thought of blaming
my radio's resolution for my bad flying. Let's see
now..........</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Ron Van Putte</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><BR> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
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