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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Jim</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Valid point if it's actually providing hysteresis. I
haven't looked at it with a scope and wonder exactly what these settings are
doing. Initially, a setting of 3 or so seemed more comfortable - now
I prefer the lowest number and really dislike anything else. (The higher
setting gave a "feel" similar to a 9ZAP - the lower setting seems tighter.)
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Earl</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=joddino@socal.rr.com href="mailto:joddino@socal.rr.com">James
Oddino</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, December 23, 2007 3:21
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba
and pattern ( A plus for Futaba)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Earl,
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>I don't think we want hysteresis. That would mean we'd have to move
the stick in the opposite direction to get the servo back to neutral.
Draw yourself a typical stick position vs. servo position curve with
hysteresis on an x-y plot and see what happens. You go up one slope but
when you reverse stick direction nothing happens until you come down the
other. I can't imagine why we'd want that in a control system?
Something helicopter guys want?</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>Jim O</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Dec 23, 2007, at 12:24 PM, Earl Haury wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 18px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0">
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"
bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Jim O</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>On the 14MZ, go to system, H/W, Stick Settings and you
are able to globally set the Response & Hysteresis for each stick. You
might find this easier than using the spline for setting a deadband. (Be
interested in the actual pw / bits difference with each setting if you
measure it.)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Earl</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(228,228,228); -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial"><B>From:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A title=joddino@socal.rr.com
href="mailto:joddino@socal.rr.com">James Oddino</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
title=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing
List</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Sunday, December 23, 2007 12:08
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba and
pattern ( A plus for Futaba)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Bob,
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>I would think that 256 resolution would mask poor stick centering.
Think about 3 step resolution. Right, neutral left. When you
select neutral it is always the same unless you move the stick to the
extreme where you get right or left. The problem is you can't trim
neutral unless you do it with another channel like folks did back in the
reed days. Move the servo with another servo.
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>You had many factors affecting trim in your 8 bit system starting
with drift in the servos and an AM link that introduced large changes in
pulse width to the servos as signal strength changed. You could
adjust linkages everyday and not keep up with everything that was fighting
you.</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>So if low resolution masks poor stick centering then more resolution
must emphasize it. This has always bothered me. I learned long
ago that the servos can resolve pulse widths that would appear to be in
the servo deadband. In the early dual rate schemes we had to adjust
the neutral if we changed the dual rate setting. I tried using a
servo to do this. Adjust the pot until the servo didn't move as I
switched the dual rate <SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>
<SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>switch back and forth. Go
fly. Every time I threw the rate switch the trim would change.
Went home looked at it on a scope and sure enough the pulse width
was changing. Adjusted it so it didn't and the trim didn't change
with the position of the rate switch when I flew.</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>This week I got a Futaba 14MZ. I checked the stick centering
with a scope. Not perfect. Plus or minus a few bits. Now
a bit in a 2048 is only about a half of a microsecond change in pulse
width to the servo so most folks don't care. However I found that
with the line or spline curve programming of the control sicks I can put
in a plus and minus .5% deadband in the stick. Now the centering is
perfect no matter how I return the stick to neutral and I can trim it in
.5 microsecond increments. </DIV>
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>I love this high tech stuff.</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>Jim O</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Dec 23, 2007, at 5:37 AM, Bob Richards wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 18px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
<DIV>
<DIV>Jim,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You may be correct, the stick centering depends on the quality of
the stick. But, throw in 256 instead of 1024 resolution, the
step size is now 4 times as much and it would be much more
noticeable.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ok, if we were flying the 4 channel Conquest transmitter
(cheap plastic gimbals) with 148 servos (non-ball bearing) in a slow
moving trainer, we probably could not tell the difference between 256
and 2048 resolution. So, would I be better to fly a Conquest radio in
pattern? That seems to be the type logic I would get from people that
say 256 is "better than most servos".</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Oops, I forgot the Conquest is an analog radio. No steps
whatsoever. ;-)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Bob R.</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>J N Hiller <<A
href="mailto:jnhiller@earthlink.net">jnhiller@earthlink.net</A>></I></B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">
<DIV class=Section1>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><SPAN
class=EmailStyle15 style="COLOR: navy"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Guys I don’t
believe the mechanical stick centering is absolute enough especially
on a somewhat used radio at least on less than top of the line
transmitters. The detent design and pivot bearings are less than shall
we say industrial quality. Bob, I had the roll-centering problem you
described with my super 7 and felt it was due to stick centering not
being equal from either left or right. I think my 9-C is better but
not absolute. I wish I had one of those little devices that displayed
the signal count to verify my
suspicion.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><SPAN
class=EmailStyle15 style="COLOR: navy"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jim
Hiller<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><SPAN
class=EmailStyle15 style="COLOR: navy"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>[<A
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</A>]<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN></B>Bob
Richards<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Saturday, December 22, 2007
3:37 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>NSRCA Mailing
List<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba
and pattern</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Ron,</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">All I can say is, I flew the
Micropro with every intention of competing at the '93 NATS with it. I
had trimming issues with my plane that I could not tune out. Some
flights would be good, some I could not trim the plane for level
flight (slight roll left or right). And, yes, I had taken out all the
throw I could mechanically so I had 100% throws programmed into the
radio. Frustrated, I decided to put my 7UAP in the plane, and it
immediately felt good. That is when I decided to do a little digging
and discovered the resolution issue.</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Whenever I mention that 256 is
not good enough, I hear all sorts of reasons why 256 should be
sufficient. Yes, once the stick is moved away from center, 256
probably is good enough. But when the stick is at center, the darn
servo better go back to the same position every time. And you need
fine resolution at center so the neutral position can be varied in
small enough amouts to arrive at precisely the desired
position. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">With a slightly worn stick or
pot, the neutral position might be bouncing between two adjacent
steps. With 256 resolution, this can be VERY noticeable. With 1024 or
higher resolution, not nearly as noticeable, if at
all.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Given the outcome of the '93
season with my old 7UAP, I'm glad I switched out the
radios.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Bob R.</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><BR><BR><B><I><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-STYLE: italic">Ron Van Putte <<A
href="mailto:vanputte@cox.net">vanputte@cox.net</A>></SPAN></I></B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>wrote:</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Hmmmm, I never thought of
blaming my radio's resolution for my bad flying. Let's see
now..........</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Ron Van Putte</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><BR> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
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