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<DIV>I have built several wood racing boats with West System. The 105/205
is for gluing and the 105/207 is for glassing and is much thinner and easier to
work with. I glue the boat together with 105/205 and then roll on 105/207
for the final finish and you are done.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10">Bruce
Reins<BR>A Stock Hydro/Runabout<BR>15-R
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 11/26/2007 8:46:44 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
lightfoot@sc.rr.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">West’s 105/205 system
seems to be a low viscosity epoxy. It is a slow cure (8 hrs) so if you add
solvent it should have plenty of time to evaporate. I have only used it for
sheeting, not glassing – yet.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<P><B><I><FONT face="Brush Script MT" color=navy size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: 'Brush Script MT'">Jay
</SPAN></FONT></I></B><B><I><FONT face="Brush Script MT" color=navy
size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: 'Brush Script MT'">Marshall</SPAN></FONT></I></B><FONT
color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy"> </SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
[mailto:</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">]
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Gray E
Fowler<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, November
26, 2007 10:23 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> NSRCA
Mailing List<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] epoxy question-I am back</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">1. "Thinning the epoxy saves
no weight by evaporation. There is virtually no evaporation and no
weight loss-a big time erroneous assumption on my part. So if you mix 2
ounces of epoxy and add 2 ounces of thinner and put it all on the airplane,
you have added 4 ounces to the airplane. "</SPAN></FONT> <BR><BR><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">After
seeing the real question I expected a weight increase of at least 9% (how much
water in the mix). If you put 1oz (by weight) of solvent in 1 oz of epoxy, and
apply it as a coating , thin, you will eventually end up with 1 oz of epoxy.
Mike, your solvent got trapped, and now it will have less adhesion, less
tensile, Compression and flexure strength, and will now shrink slowly as the
alcohol exits the cured epoxy, over a year or so (see Wayne's
answer).</SPAN></FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">None of the solvent's listed will
react with any epoxy blend. Exotherm is negligible when applied as a thin
coating, but significant in mass. The ability to have the solvent evaporate
out of the epoxy coating is directly related to the mixed viscosity of the
neat epoxy blend and the cure rate of the epoxy. Those of you who ran
experiments with 5 minute epoxy reported bad results because of high viscosity
and fast cure rate.The high viscosity (even Mike's blend is apparently too
high) will cause a skin effect where the solvent evaporates from the surface
first, creating a high viscosity skin, then the epoxy starts to cure
increasing viscosity even more, thus trapping the solvent. Using fiberglass
makes this even worse. MIKE- in one year from now your wings will weigh
less.</SPAN></FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">So it sounds like the the Pattern
Dudes of the world need a solution. What AeroSlave can do is provide a
super low viscosity epoxy for sale. This will be 100% solids (which means NO
solvents). Chances are, as a mixed epoxy, the viscosity will be lower than
even blends with some solvent in them. This can be used to apply fiberglass to
wings or as a general laminating resin.</SPAN></FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">How much interest
would there be for such a a product? It would probably cost about $50/ quart,
$25/ pint. It would absolutely require an accurate scale (+/- 1 gram) to WEIGH
the epoxy and hardener into the appropriate mix ratio. AND I offer no
warranty, simply because you guys are the biggest bunch of experimenters in
the world, and I cannot control, nor anticipate how this could get screwed
up.</SPAN></FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">1. Operator cannot operate a
scale.</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">2. Operator has a crappy
scale.</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">3. Operator added solvent anyway
because thats how he has always done it...since 1976</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">4.
Operators basement is 100% realative humidity..condensation on the
wing.</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">5. Operator added "more" hardener
to make it cure faster.</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">6. Operator......(enter F/U
here).</SPAN></FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">As you can see there is one common
theme to all of these possible problems, Operator, i.e.
customer.</SPAN></FONT> <BR><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">So if you are STILL interested
please respond and Lance and I will take it under advisement.</SPAN></FONT>
<BR><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT
face=sans-serif size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif"><BR><BR><BR>Gray
Fowler<BR>Senior Principal Chemical Engineer<BR>Radomes and Specialty
Apertures<BR>Technical Staff Composites Engineering<BR>Raytheon</SPAN></FONT>
<BR><BR></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">"Dr.
Mike Harrison" <drmikedds@sbcglobal.net></SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=sans-serif size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">
</SPAN></FONT><BR><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">Sent by:
nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">11/23/2007 01:57
PM</SPAN></FONT> </P>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">Please respond
to<BR>NSRCA Mailing List
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></SPAN></FONT></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">"NSRCA Mailing
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<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: right" align=right><FONT
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=sans-serif size=1><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: sans-serif">[NSRCA-discussion]
epoxy question</SPAN></FONT></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></TD>
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<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
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<P class=MsoNormal></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I have
read with interest all the comments and some of you have educated me on this
issue. If I may, I will share what I have learned.</SPAN></FONT>
<BR> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">1. Thinning the epoxy saves
no weight by evaporation. There is virtually no evaporation and no
weight loss-a big time erroneous assumption on my part. So if you mix 2
ounces of epoxy and add 2 ounces of thinner and put it all on the airplane,
you have added 4 ounces to the airplane. </SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">2.
The properties of the epoxy are changed-it becomes
rubbery.</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">3. Changing the properties
is not an issue regarding finishing the airplane(painting)</SPAN></FONT>
<BR><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">4. Using thinned epoxy is
fine for applying glass cloth.</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">5. I have tried MEK(epoxy
thinner), denatured alcohol, 91%alcohol, acetone. My preference is
denatured alcohol because it is the safest and most economical, I think.
I thought MEK would be the answer. It is the worst of the bunch.
</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">6. The best way to glass
surfaces is to thin the epoxy and apply as sparingly as possible. A way
to do that is to apply and wipe off excess with paper towels.
</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">7. It is almost exactly 2
ounces to glass a wing panel complete, so 4 ounces for a whole wing.
About 2 ounces for a stab. Properly done wings and stab glassed
and painted is 2-2.5 times the weight of monokote. </SPAN></FONT>
<BR><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">8. A second thinned coat of
epoxy on the glassed wing is .75 ounces each wing panel-1.5 oz
total.</SPAN></FONT> <BR> <BR> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Pick your poison.</SPAN></FONT>
<BR> <BR><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Later,</SPAN></FONT> <BR><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Mike</SPAN></FONT>
<BR> <TT><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">_______________________________________________</SPAN></FONT></TT><FONT
face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'"><BR><TT><FONT
face="Courier New">NSRCA-discussion mailing list</FONT></TT><BR><TT><FONT
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</P></DIV><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussion
mailing
list<BR>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT></DIV></FONT><BR><BR><BR><DIV><FONT style="color: black; font: normal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;"><HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px">Check out AOL Money & Finance's list of the <A title="http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001" href="http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001" target="_blank">hottest products</A> and <A title="http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002" href="http://money.aol.com/top5/general/ways-you-are-wasting-money?NCID=aoltop00030000000002" target="_blank">top money wasters</A> of 2007.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>