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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>West’s 105/205 system seems to be a
low viscosity epoxy. It is a slow cure (8 hrs) so if you add solvent it should
have plenty of time to evaporate. I have only used it for sheeting, not
glassing – yet.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
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<p><b><i><font size=4 color=navy face="Brush Script MT"><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:"Brush Script MT";color:navy;font-weight:bold;font-style:
italic'>Jay </span></font></i></b><b><i><font size=4 color=navy
face="Brush Script MT"><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Brush Script MT";
color:navy;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Marshall</span></font></i></b><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'> </span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> [mailto:</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Gray E Fowler<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, November 26, 2007
10:23 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> NSRCA Mailing List<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
epoxy question-I am back</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:
.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>1. "Thinning the epoxy saves no weight by evaporation.
There is virtually no evaporation and no weight loss-a big time erroneous
assumption on my part. So if you mix 2 ounces of epoxy and add 2 ounces
of thinner and put it all on the airplane, you have added 4 ounces to the
airplane. "</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>After
seeing the real question I expected a weight increase of at least 9% (how much
water in the mix). If you put 1oz (by weight) of solvent in 1 oz of epoxy, and
apply it as a coating , thin, you will eventually end up with 1 oz of epoxy.
Mike, your solvent got trapped, and now it will have less adhesion, less
tensile, Compression and flexure strength, and will now shrink slowly as the
alcohol exits the cured epoxy, over a year or so (see Wayne's answer).</span></font>
<br>
<br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>None
of the solvent's listed will react with any epoxy blend. Exotherm is negligible
when applied as a thin coating, but significant in mass. The ability to have
the solvent evaporate out of the epoxy coating is directly related to the mixed
viscosity of the neat epoxy blend and the cure rate of the epoxy. Those of you
who ran experiments with 5 minute epoxy reported bad results because of high
viscosity and fast cure rate.The high viscosity (even Mike's blend is
apparently too high) will cause a skin effect where the solvent evaporates from
the surface first, creating a high viscosity skin, then the epoxy starts to
cure increasing viscosity even more, thus trapping the solvent. Using fiberglass
makes this even worse. MIKE- in one year from now your wings will weigh less.</span></font>
<br>
<br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>So it
sounds like the the Pattern Dudes of the world need a solution. What
AeroSlave can do is provide a super low viscosity epoxy for sale. This will be
100% solids (which means NO solvents). Chances are, as a mixed epoxy, the
viscosity will be lower than even blends with some solvent in them. This can be
used to apply fiberglass to wings or as a general laminating resin.</span></font>
<br>
<br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>How
much interest would there be for such a a product? It would probably cost about
$50/ quart, $25/ pint. It would absolutely require an accurate scale (+/- 1
gram) to WEIGH the epoxy and hardener into the appropriate mix ratio. AND I
offer no warranty, simply because you guys are the biggest bunch of
experimenters in the world, and I cannot control, nor anticipate how this could
get screwed up.</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>1.
Operator cannot operate a scale.</span></font> <br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>2.
Operator has a crappy scale.</span></font> <br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>3.
Operator added solvent anyway because thats how he has always done it...since 1976</span></font>
<br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>4.
Operators basement is 100% realative humidity..condensation on the wing.</span></font>
<br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>5.
Operator added "more" hardener to make it cure faster.</span></font> <br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>6.
Operator......(enter F/U here).</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>As you
can see there is one common theme to all of these possible problems, Operator,
i.e. customer.</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>So if
you are STILL interested please respond and Lance and I will take it under
advisement.</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font>
<br>
<font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
<br>
Gray Fowler<br>
Senior Principal Chemical Engineer<br>
Radomes and Specialty Apertures<br>
Technical Staff Composites Engineering<br>
Raytheon</span></font> <br>
<br>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;font-weight:bold'>"Dr. Mike Harrison"
<drmikedds@sbcglobal.net></span></font></b><font size=1
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><br>
<font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Sent
by: nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</span></font> </p>
<p><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:
sans-serif'>11/23/2007 01:57 PM</span></font> </p>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=1
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Please
respond to<br>
NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><font size=1
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>"NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></span></font>
</p>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><font size=1
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<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><font size=1
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>[NSRCA-discussion] epoxy question</span></font></p>
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<br>
</span></font><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>I have read with interest all the comments and some of you have educated
me on this issue. If I may, I will share what I have learned.</span></font>
<br>
<br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>1.
Thinning the epoxy saves no weight by evaporation. There is
virtually no evaporation and no weight loss-a big time erroneous assumption on
my part. So if you mix 2 ounces of epoxy and add 2 ounces of thinner and
put it all on the airplane, you have added 4 ounces to the airplane. </span></font>
<br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>2.
The properties of the epoxy are changed-it becomes rubbery.</span></font>
<br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>3.
Changing the properties is not an issue regarding finishing the
airplane(painting)</span></font> <br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>4.
Using thinned epoxy is fine for applying glass cloth.</span></font> <br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>5.
I have tried MEK(epoxy thinner), denatured alcohol, 91%alcohol, acetone.
My preference is denatured alcohol because it is the safest and most
economical, I think. I thought MEK would be the answer. It is the
worst of the bunch. </span></font> <br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>6.
The best way to glass surfaces is to thin the epoxy and apply as
sparingly as possible. A way to do that is to apply and wipe off excess
with paper towels. </span></font> <br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>7.
It is almost exactly 2 ounces to glass a wing panel complete, so 4 ounces
for a whole wing. About 2 ounces for a stab. Properly done wings
and stab glassed and painted is 2-2.5 times the weight of monokote. </span></font>
<br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>8.
A second thinned coat of epoxy on the glassed wing is .75 ounces each
wing panel-1.5 oz total.</span></font> <br>
<br>
<br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Pick
your poison.</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Later,</span></font>
<br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Mike</span></font>
<br>
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